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You obviously have a skewed understanding of the risks vs rewards. And your surgery nonsense is a good example of it. Along with your understanding of why folks DO care if others get it.
What if I said...take this shot with a 30% odd of preventing a horrific flu. Now, lets just talk about death. 80,000 Americans died from the flu last year. Giving us a death rate from the flu of 1 in 4,000. Odds of dying from the flu shot? No one is really sure. Its so rare. The HIGHEST estimate I have seen is 1 in 500,000.
Now lets talk about non-death. Because as you point out, its only 30% effectiveness (which BTW is cherry picking statistics-it can be as high as 60% effective when they get the strains for the upcoming year right)...but lets use your cherry picked number anyways because it reveals the level of nonsense in your argument. 1-2% might experience a sore area where they get injected. Meanwhile the "30%" effective flu vaccine? It also makes those who do get the flu have lessened symptoms. Remember, 1 in 4,000 of us DIED last year from the flu. 1-2 in 100 might get a sore arm. BUT anywhere from 5 in 100 to 20 in 100 will get the flu. So....you are 2.5X to 10X more likely to catch the flu then to even get a sore arm from the flu vaccine. Yeah. And that sore arm will make you either not get the flu at all or if you do get it have much lessened effects from the flu.
Why do we care if others get the flu vaccine? Because people come to work. Because kids go to school. Because the more vaccinations, the less the flu is spread. If you lived on a island and your choices had no effect on others, no one would care. But welcome to society.
Where did you see that? The rate of compensation for vaccine injury, not death, is about 1 in 1,000,000 doses of vaccine.
I've had it every year for the last 7 years. Once I got a customer svc job handling money and being around kids I wasn't about to take any unnecessary chances. I had a 10 day flu once back in the the early 2000's and never want to experience that again.
Where did you see that? The rate of compensation for vaccine injury, not death, is about 1 in 1,000,000 doses of vaccine.
I could hunt it down probably, as I recall it was 1 to 2 per million. But honestly, even at 2 per million its pretty irrelevant in comparison.
But you are confusing total vaccination compensation, with flu vaccination compensation/death. The flu vaccine is FAR less risky then vaccinations on average.
I could hunt it down probably, as I recall it was 1 to 2 per million. But honestly, even at 2 per million its pretty irrelevant in comparison.
But you are confusing total vaccination compensation, with flu vaccination compensation/death. The flu vaccine is FAR less risky then vaccinations on average.
I have a hard time believing 1 to 2 deaths per million from flu vaccine, when total compensation for vaccine injuries is about 1 in 1 million (actually a little less). If flu vaccine is FAR less risky, something else I'd like to see a citation for, then the death rate from flu vaccine is even lower than that. In point of fact, anyone would be hard put to be able to cite 1 death from vaccines that is medically verified. 80% of the NVICP awards are "no-fault".
You don't need to hunt your cite down, as I don't think it's correct.
I am not going to provide links for my post, but you can look it up yourself.
Spanish Flu in 1918 affected young, healthy adults far more than older adults. Why? There had another Pandemic in 1886 of the same strain of flu. Adults who had lived through that one weren't the ones dying because they had gotten immunity from the previous pandemic.
Same thing happened in 2009. That one also affected younger people far more than older ones. Why? It was the same strain as the 1957 Pandemic. Adults who had lived through that one had immunity, flu shots or not. Go look up medical journals on both, not "anti-vax" sites. Not going to give my own irrelevant experience from 2009 for younger adults, flu shots or not, versus older adults.
While experts say that these strains morph from year to year, to date there has not been a brand new, never before seen strain of the flu. It won't sell vaccinations, but if you have had Swine, Asian, etc., flu in the past that will give you immunity. Not true? Then why does having had measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc., in the past give you immunity to it in the future? Ask your grandparents, or medical professionals, why they have never had an MMR vaccination.
I've had it every year for the last 7 years. Once I got a customer svc job handling money and being around kids I wasn't about to take any unnecessary chances. I had a 10 day flu once back in the the early 2000's and never want to experience that again.
I can imagine, the flu is nothing to mess around with, it can take you out for good. I have no doubt the flu shot have kept me from getting it, when so many around me at work was getting sick. My doctor always advise me to take one.
I find it depressing that we have yet another form of science-denial and, in this case, I'm annoyed that it crosses the political divide. But, in addition to feeling bummed and annoyed about this, I'm also curious about what is motivating so much of this nonsense. At least with evolution, climate change, etc., I can see the seeds of the conspiratorial thinking, but in this case I'm just puzzled. I did some digging and found this:
The article gives some hints about the psychological roots of the "motivated reasoning" at work in anti-vaxers, but I'm not satisfied that it really explains much, so I'm still puzzled. The anti-vax attitude leads to actual deaths (thus it is not so vague or longer-term as the threat of climate change might seem), and the science is not overly vague or confusing in this case, yet somehow this particular conspiracy mindset has infected people on both ends of the political spectrum.
I am not going to provide links for my post, but you can look it up yourself.
Spanish Flu in 1918 affected young, healthy adults far more than older adults. Why? There had another Pandemic in 1886 of the same strain of flu. Adults who had lived through that one weren't the ones dying because they had gotten immunity from the previous pandemic.
Same thing happened in 2009. That one also affected younger people far more than older ones. Why? It was the same strain as the 1957 Pandemic. Adults who had lived through that one had immunity, flu shots or not. Go look up medical journals on both, not "anti-vax" sites. Not going to give my own irrelevant experience from 2009 for younger adults, flu shots or not, versus older adults.
While experts say that these strains morph from year to year, to date there has not been a brand new, never before seen strain of the flu. It won't sell vaccinations, but if you have had Swine, Asian, etc., flu in the past that will give you immunity. Not true? Then why does having had measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc., in the past give you immunity to it in the future? Ask your grandparents, or medical professionals, why they have never had an MMR vaccination.
I never got one, and nor do I get sick. I have taken 2 sick days in the past 20 years, and that was when I got the noro-virus.
OMG, I got that and it was terrible. That's probably the sickest I've ever been. Hopefully having had it will mean immunity in the future.
As for flu, I'm not sure I've ever had it. If I have, it's been mild enough that it wasn't much too big a deal, or it was when I was so young I don't remember. Two of the last five years my husband has gotten the shot. One of the two years he got the flu anyway.
As for the poll, I went ahead and put 'opposed', but only because I don't get it. I'm certainly not opposed to there being a flu vaccine and others choosing to take it.
OMG, I got that and it was terrible. That's probably the sickest I've ever been. Hopefully having had it will mean immunity in the future.
As for flu, I'm not sure I've ever had it. If I have, it's been mild enough that it wasn't much too big a deal, or it was when I was so young I don't remember. Two of the last five years my husband has gotten the shot. One of the two years he got the flu anyway.
As for the poll, I went ahead and put 'opposed', but only because I don't get it. I'm certainly not opposed to there being a flu vaccine and others choosing to take it.
I think the poll could've had a distinction to include "Yes, but I'm ok with other vaccines".
As for norovirus, my entire workplace got it once. Out of 12 people, only the CEO and I managed to avoid it. When everyone else returned to work, they had all kinds of gruesome accounts of the illness.
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