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Talk about children's argument! It is people who determine wages. It is politicians that determine that Warren Buffet pay a lesser tax rate than his secretary.
I already told you and you don't understand. The government gives billions of dollars to corporations.
The federal government publishes their spending totals each year. Pull down the latest and show us the billions of dollars "given" to corporations. If what you assert were true, it should show up on the spending side of the budget.
to all the people going back and forth on this topic...
1) we have had big increases in productivity in the last few decades except the CEOs have gotten to were they make 200 times a workers wage..do you think if they only made 20 times that would decrease the incentive a whole lot?
The CEOs get paid that much because if a company doesn't pay them, another company will. The average tenure of a CEO is very low. The job sucks actually. You're never off. You have to answer for everything. You think that Wells Fargo CEO opened ANY of the accounts that weren't supposed to be opened? Do you think he even made the incentive plan for lower staff that overly encouraged bad behavior? Of course not. He doesn't have time for that.
Who would risk a good setup to lead a company when the odds are very much that 10 years later that will not be their job any longer? Besides, companies go shopping for CEOs, most of the time, when things are bad. Why leave a nice VP role where life is good for a giant unknown....because you threw a bunch of money at me.
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Originally Posted by elvis44102
im older myself and wont live to see any or much of this change but automation is expected to cut out more and more jobs..what are these people supposed to do? (learn stock market manipulation?
No, just learn. Learn something of value. Learn how to use the new tools. I'm an accountant. There's no more rooms of people with green visors prodigiously cranking out hand calculations. Computer systems do that....but they still need work. There's still things to be fixed....and now there's so many more numbers people are interested in. It's not just the numbers, but how do we know they're correct? What do they mean? What is precise methodology of translation being used.
It evolved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis44102
why are we stuck on 40hr weeks with 8 hr days do you not realize those were socialist achievements we are going to have to go to 28 hr weeks and spread the work around but that requires a bite outa those 200 times CEO salaries
Why? I don't want to work 28 hour weeks. I don't even look at it that way. I want to get something accomplished. I can't handoff on Wednesday everything on my project and expect
The CEO salary spread over employees isn't going to make a lick of difference. Get off the envy thing. You can be CEO of your company, but you'll have to found it as well. Otherwise, you have to show that you can run the company and not everyone's getting that chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis44102
if i was a conservative i would thank god everyday for the humongous conglomerate of Washington lobbyist who have managed the biggest public relations fraud in the world upon the average republican voter who continue to let corporations pick their pocket..as A. Lincoln said labor precedes capital and is therefor subservient to labor..yes there was a time when the republican party was progressive...many years ago
If you were a conservative, you'd realize a competitive landscape is the best way for you to get a good job.
Because these companies need people in order to execute on their plans to make money. As a progressive, I think it would be great if unemployment offices possibly looked more at different tracks for gaining different job skills, and I'm sure they've tried it in the past.
Sadly, there's just a lot of people that don't want to try. They want an excuse and someone to take care of them. They're called socialists. If the state pays for all of the main components to live, they can sit around all day and do just fine...arguing over what society owes them next.
These people are to the Democrats what the crazy tea party group is to the Republicans. Both sides need to reign in their extremes or risk being taken over by them.
I think they believe everything you earn or own belongs to the “society.” Therefore, a tax cut for you is to give you money.
Of course, rational people DON'T think everything one earns or owns belongs to society. But, sadly, we're not really debating rational people. We're debating statist collectivists, Ã la Stalin, Mussolini, etc.
I'll try one more time, although your situation is really hopeless.
1. Last year the US government spend about $4 trillion, and the deficit was $779 billions. Almost 20% is borrowed money.
2. Companies accumulate capital by underpaying workers, this is a fact, not my opinion.
I'm going to challenge your assertion by posting actual facts. Walmart is frequently vilified, but they have a profit margin of only 1.37%. If they paid their employees more and/or gave them better benefits, they'd have to raise prices. And as another poster accurately explained, prices are geared to the middle class and below, and that demographic simply doesn't want to pay more for services or goods retailed by Walmart.
The obvious question is WHY does the middle class and below even buy Apple or Android products when by doing so they're quite obviously just putting extra money into Apple's and Google's CEOs pockets?
Quote:
3. On top of this, rich people pay less tax rates than the average person.
Again, false.
The actual average effective federal income tax rates paid by income level, as reported by the IRS:
Top 1%: 26.9%
Top 1-5%: 19.2%
Top 5-10%: 14.0%
Top 10-25%: 10.7%
Top 25-50%: 7.8%
Bottom 50%: 3.7%
I'll try one more time, although your situation is really hopeless.
1. Last year the US government spend about $4 trillion, and the deficit was $779 billions. Almost 20% is borrowed money.
2. Companies accumulate capital by underpaying workers, this is a fact, not my opinion.
3. On top of this, rich people pay less tax rates than the average person. The fact that they pay most of the tax is caused by the point above.
So when the government writes a check either for food stamp or for profit corporations, the funds come from the same bulk-that is the economic as a whole from which millions of people participate.
I am not saying everyone should get paid the same as you are probably imagining I am trying to say. But if you don't see anything wrong with CEO's getting payed 200x more than their workers [and in some cases up to 1000x more] then that is the just of anti-social behavior.
You are combining so many leftist talking points. It’s not even funny.
1. Are you a slave master or God who gets to decide how much other people shall be paid?
2. Why are so jealous? If not, why do you care how much money people make?
3. If a worker can do the CEO’s job, he is more than welcome to try. Do you even remotely know what a CEO is about? Have you worked for any CEO and get a taste of their daily life? You would never utter these words if you have. No amount of money in the world can motivate me to be a CEO- it’s too damn hard and excruciating. If I fail, hundreds, thousands or millions of people’s lives would be screwed.
Last edited by lifeexplorer; 01-27-2019 at 08:37 AM..
I moved out of NY because I couldn't stand the politics the taxes and arbitrary laws.
If it's a matter of moving expenses I'll gladly start a go fund me for the cause.
It's a good idea. Some are doing just that. But, isn't it a bit embarrassing to see America offering such little opportunity that people think other countries are worth a try now?
Shouldn't we add healthcare and education to our long list of social programs so we can compete with these other countries as a desirable place to live your life?
Right now it appears our role model is Brazil, no middle class and a small number of rich people compared to poor people needing aid. Do we in America really want to continue on this route? We are a young country, we have years of growing to do to get it right. Why would be stop here?
"The ranks of the American middle class have sunk to a shocking new low."
"After four decades as an economic majority, middle-class Americans are no longer in that admirable place. They’re down to 49.9 percent from 61 percent of the population in 1971, with the ranks of the poor and ultrarich growing to a majority in the US."https://nypost.com/2015/12/27/the-rise-and-fall-of-middle-class-america/
I suppose you could pick on China as a "failure," but especially these days, it's doing OK for a failure. Aside from that, I'd love to hear the cons here try to tell everybody how Finland and New Zealand are such miserable failures that nobody should ever want to emulate them.
Denmark is socialist? Yes, the government has a national health care system and education from grade 1 on up, including occupational educations is also provided by government; we do have a social safety net, and all of us pay high taxes. However, the government no longer owns any firms that provide other goods and services. They have been privatized.
Your definition of socialism is basically an American version of Socialism invented by people who don't like to pay taxes for services that don't personally receive.
It's a good idea. Some are doing just that. But, isn't it a bit embarrassing to see America offering such little opportunity that people think other countries are worth a try now?
Shouldn't we add healthcare and education to our long list of social programs so we can compete with these other countries as a desirable place to live your life?
Right now it appears our role model is Brazil, no middle class and a small number of rich people compared to poor people needing aid. Do we in America really want to continue on this route? We are a young country, we have years of growing to do to get it right. Why would be stop here?
"The ranks of the American middle class have sunk to a shocking new low."
"After four decades as an economic majority, middle-class Americans are no longer in that admirable place. They’re down to 49.9 percent from 61 percent of the population in 1971, with the ranks of the poor and ultrarich growing to a majority in the US."https://nypost.com/2015/12/27/the-rise-and-fall-of-middle-class-america/
Why should anybody be forced at gunpoint to pay for other people’s education, health care, child rearing and living expenses? Isn’t that slavery?
I'm going to challenge your assertion by posting actual facts. Walmart is frequently vilified, but they have a profit margin of only 1.37%. If they paid their employees more and/or gave them better benefits, they'd have to raise prices. And as another poster accurately explained, prices are geared to the middle class and below, and that demographic simply doesn't want to pay more for services or goods retailed by Walmart.
The obvious question is WHY does the middle class and below even buy Apple or Android products when by doing so they're quite obviously just putting extra money into Apple's and Google's CEOs pockets?
Again, false.
The actual average effective federal income tax rates paid by income level, as reported by the IRS:
Top 1%: 26.9%
Top 1-5%: 19.2%
Top 5-10%: 14.0%
Top 10-25%: 10.7%
Top 25-50%: 7.8%
Bottom 50%: 3.7%
Those are a symptoms of the greed driven state of the economy. Not only are wages distorted; prices of goods are distorted. Add to this the bombardment of ads, and ridiculous level of credit for useless crap. But yes, there is a level of personal responsibility that is exploited.
Some prices need to go up, they are artificially kept down; and though this is apparently beneficial, it does more harm than good.
The fact remains, THE GAME IS RIGGED. For those who get paid well and have investments it's not surprising to act selfish and defend the system. This is the truth you avoid. Most people are under-payed, and some abuse their higher positions to get higher wages.
Wages is only a small part of rich people's income. When you add all their gains they pay less tax rates.
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