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Old 02-20-2019, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,753,051 times
Reputation: 9330

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 205 View Post
https://amgreatness.com/2019/02/17/a...f-a-dead-coup/

This article does a a great job of pointing out how top level DOJ and FBI officials along with the DNC, Never Trumpers in both parties, and even the mainstream media conspired together to push anything they could find or use (whether by legal means or not) to take the President down. We're literally talking the biggest political scandal and government abuse of power and weaponization of government to illegally spy on an opposing political party in the history of this country and barely a peep from the mainstream media.

The details of this scandal are shocking. Even more shocking is the fact that despite documented congressional testimony and a documented paper trail proving an illicit conspiracy by the FBI, DOJ, previous administration, and other anti-Trumpers the mainstream media refuses to report on ANY of it. Not only that, they continue to aggressively push a Trump/russia/Russia collusion conspiracy without even the tiniest shred of actual supporting evidence. Not only is there no corrobarating evidence of Trump/Russian collusion, there is more and more documented evidence of Hillary, the DNC, and their allies in the FBI and DOJ of colluding with the Russians to affect the 2016 election. As so often turns out to be the case, Democrats are accusing Trump and the GOP of the very crimes they themselves are guilty of.

For anyone in the anti-Trump crowd still buying the completely debunked Trump/Russia collusion hoax or anyone who is interested in hearing the other side of the collusion story that isn't being reported on much less being challenged by the mainstream media should check out Dan Bongino's podcast. He and others have done incredible work piecing together the timeline and the FBI/DOJ/DNC players involved in the spygate scandal. Multiple lives ruined financially and reputation wise by a special counsel with an unlimited budget charging subjects with process crimes and then forcing them to go bankrupt defending themselves all for the ultimate crime of daring to support the Trump campaign. Process crimes which FBI/DOJ officials themselves can commit with impunity while charging others with the same thing in order to force them to compose and make up dirt on Trump. Third world banana republic type tactics that Democrats and their sycophants all over the media once decried but now openly and enthusiastically support in this new age of "Orange Man bad!!!"
Great article. It's frightening how powerful these America haters are. If Hillary had been elected, these criminals would still be in power today.
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,554,711 times
Reputation: 24780
hmmmm...

Seems like...

But I can't say for certain.

This thread gives off just a slight hint of...

Victory fatigue.

No wall.

No border crisis.

Russiagate closing in.

But wait! There's more!

Passing nuclear secrets to Saudi.

Stay tuned, everyone.

We're witnessing history.

It's gonna end spectacularly.

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Old 02-20-2019, 07:46 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by 205 View Post
But you see that's the difference between a lot of Trump supporters (or people that are lukewarm towards Trump or at least don't openly hate him and are withholding judgement until verified/corroborating evidence of criminal conspiracy..i.e. "collusion" between Trump and the Russians is shown and proven) and the anti-Trump leftists and Never Trumpers.

There will no doubt be a faction of Trump supporters that will stick with him no matter what including proven conspiracy with Russia. There is imho a much larger group of conservatives, moderates, and even libertarians that would turn on Trump if it was in fact proven he conspired with Russia to fix the 2016 election. Could you or anyone else who despises him say the same about his haters accepting any SCO report that finds no corrobarating evidence that he or his campaign did conspire with Russia during the 2016 election? Heck, many on the left still refer to Judge Kavanaugh as a proven rapist and still claim that the Covington high school kids threatened, harassed, and yelled "build the wall" chants at Phillips despite a complete lack of evidence to corroborate the former and actual video evidence that exonerated the latter which brings me to the point you made in the quote above.

There is this strange disconnect among Trump haters with regards to the idea that there "isn't a shred of evidence" suggesting any sort of FBI/DOJ/DNC/Never Trumper/Deep State/MSM collusion or conspiracy to illegally spy on and take out Trump. I suppose it's somewhat understandable considering the vast majority of mainstream television, online, and print media is an eager and willing participant in the anti-Trump witch hunt and therefore has never and probably will never report on anything that might derail the Trump/Russian collusion narrative. On the other hand, if the ant-Trump crowd truly believes the Trump Russian collusion narrative and are hoping that definitive evidence of criminal conspiracy between Trump and Russia exists and can be proven it would stand to reason that you would at least be curious to also researched the allegations made by the other side who has been critical of the FBI/DOJ/DNC/Deep State to see if there is any evidence that the allegations made by pro Trumpers is true. That's what reasonable people on either side of the debate do to judge whether their side or the other side is simply engaging in delusional wishful thinking or if what the other side claims warrants a closer objective look. Not only do Trump haters refuse to consider whether or not the allegations from the other side have any possible merit at all, they don't even seem to understand that there is A LOT of actual documented evidence of both FBI/DOJ malfeasance in the manner which it appears they deliberately and illegally spied on an opposition political campaign during an election. Not only that, but there is actual documented evidence that they broke their own rules and procedures multiple times to get a FISC warrant to not only spy on the Trump campaign but also in dealing with the Clinton email investigation. Furthermore, there is very strong circumstantial if not outright documented evidence that the FBI/DOJ/DNC/Deep State engaged in the very same "Russian collusion" to try to set up the Trump campaign for crimes the DNC was already engaged in.

This isn't some wild conspiracy theory either. The evidence via the congressional testimony of multiple top level FBI and DOJ officials as well as internal FBI and DOJ documents released due to FOIA requests is real and is public for anyone truly digging and wanting to find out what happened. The fact that so many Trump haters are oblivious to the fact that this evidence exists is dumbfounding. The fact that the evidence is real and it actually exists and is available to the general public if they're willing to look for it is yet is completely ignored by the mainstream media and Trump haters in general is both scary and sad at the same time. Scary how powerfully effective the mainstream media can sway the public opinion of an entire nation for or against a politician or political party as the gatekeeper of information to the large masses of gullible and uninformed Americans. Sad in they will completely and willingly abandon any and all journalistic integrity and push a questionable or even false narrative simply because it furthers their leftist agenda and/or supports their leftist world view. They run with dubious or even unverified information if it supports their agenda and bury any story that hurts or doesn't promote their agenda.

Simply put, if the proof of Trump/Russia collusion is as overwhelmingly and obvious as the haters claim it is then you can't rest assured it will be widely, loudly, and gleefully disseminated my the mainstream media and Trump will rightly go down. As of today, however, the same can't be said of the DNC or the "Deep State" ever answering for its documented malfeasance. Short of their guilty parties being perp walked to jail there won't be a peep in the mainstream media about it. Sad but true
I appreciate how reasonable you are being. I'd like to point out a few things. Trump isn't going to "go down" over the Russian collusion allegations. While Trump supporters (and some Trump haters as well) take the investigation as an attack on Trump, the fact is that collusion isn't a crime, and that the missteps of the Trump campaign will be characterized as missteps out of ignorance. Trump, who claims to hire only the best, hired people who were unfamiliar with campaign rules regarding foreign powers, as well as campaign rules regarding financing. Ignorance of the law is generally not a good defense, but in the case of prosecution, intent is important. The fact that they didn't intend to break the law will weigh in heavily. More than that, I would be surprised if they can tie Trump directly to many of these missteps. Which I don't believe is Mueller's focus.

I say that it isn't Mueller's focus, because the issue of collusion in this investigation is about Russia, and Russia's intentions, and how effective Russia was. While Putin and Russia clearly preferred Trump over Clinton, that's an aside, not the big picture. The big picture is that Putin and Russia have a goal of discrediting and undermining the election process in the US. They want Americans to distrust the process, and they want the world to distrust Americans. In that sense, Trump's complaints about the "deep state" and "fake news" are music to Putin's ears. And Trump further pleases Putin by trusting Putin over his own intelligence services, and by his foreign relations actions which have damaged our relations with key allies and isolated the United States.

As for a conspiracy between the FBI, DOJ, and media which you assert. The evidence does not support collusion between these groups. There is certainly evidence that people involved with these groups were unhappy with Trump. But that does not mean that there was a conspiracy or attempt at a coup. That does mean that Trump often takes actions that do not support our own government. While I respect that his supporters see his withdrawal from trade agreements and the climate accord and numerous treaties, as things that accomplish Trump's and their goals, the end result is isolation of the United States. That clearly is something that many Trump supporters favor. But there are many of us who don't see the isolation of the United States as a good thing. There are many of us who see such an isolation as the erosion of the global power of the United States. I've said this many times, Trump is making the United States irrelevant on the world stage, because that is what isolation of a nation does. It makes it irrelevant. And that's not a good thing, in my opinion. Or in the opinion of many people in the intelligence services, in the various departments of the executive branch (such as State Department, Defense Department, or the Department of Justice), in the mass media. The fact that there are many people over a wide range of occupations who have common ground in their opinions of the President and his actions does not mean that a conspiracy is afoot, or that these people are colluding. And there simply isn't any evidence that they are colluding.
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:14 AM
 
8,196 posts, read 2,847,983 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
hmmmm...

Seems like...

But I can't say for certain.

This thread gives off just a slight hint of...

Victory fatigue.

No wall.

No border crisis.

Russiagate closing in.

But wait! There's more!

Passing nuclear secrets to Saudi.

Stay tuned, everyone.

We're witnessing history.

It's gonna end spectacularly.


Wall is being built.

Trump's on it, see above.

RussiaGate has fallen along with the Dems.

Hellary's been there done that.

We're witnessing a great future for America.

Yes, It IS spectacular!!

Thanks for your support.
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,554,711 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4dognight View Post
Wall is being built.
No it isn't.

The Dubya/Obama fence is being extended.

Quote:
Trump's on it, see above.

RussiaGate has fallen along with the Dems.
Not so fast, grasshopper.

It ain't over 'til it's over.
Quote:
Hellary's been there done that.

We're witnessing a great future for America.

Yes, It IS spectacular!!

Thanks for your support.
Aw, shucks. It's nothin' really.

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Old 02-20-2019, 11:15 AM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,915,650 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I love that all these idiots on the left think they are more intelligent than Victor Davis Hanson.

Hint: You're not even close.
Intelligent people can certainly make incorrect arguments and be biased. I worked at Stanford and even in that environment you run into different opinions on the same topic (but how can that be??? Right??).

There are plenty of equally-qualified scholars that don't agree with his assessment.
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:56 AM
205 205 started this thread
 
518 posts, read 449,153 times
Reputation: 720
To DC at the Ridge

Likewise, your last post is reasonable as well. I don't agree that Trump is isolating the U.S. from the rest of the world or our allies but I'll concede that his policies could be perceived as that by other countries including allies which is worth considering. I don't think he's doing anything radical at all by pulling back on foreign intervention in wars, renegotiating unfair trade deals, and calling out the media's blatantly biased, dishonest reporting. It only seems radical because it's outside the norm of the usual lame disingenuous politician speak and the globalist world order or doing things. He's not withdrawing from the world rather he is taking a new approach to dealing with issues and problems. W Bush followed the tired old globalist model like all presidents do and actied "presidential" and turned out to be a disaster in many respects. He played nice with the media and let them walk all over him and it still didn't stop those on the left from calling him a Nazi.

As for no evidence (even circumstantial) of an FBI/DOJ/DNC/Deep State conspiracy to spy on and set up Trump, I have to respectfully disagree. You make some good points about Trump turning off some allies with his style and approach and even some of his policies but I respectfully disagree that he's helping or facilitating Putin. The two things actually tie together because even if he wanted us to have better relations with Russia, the false Russia narrative makes it very difficult for him to try to have a better relationship lest he continue to be accused of being Putin's puppet. His policies and approach have actually been much harder on Russia than the previous administration's approach. It's hard to argue that if one is being completely objective. As for Trump/Russia and the allegations many on the right are making about an illicit "coup" attempt against the President, it may not be ultimately proven but there is at the very least as much evidence of it happening than Trump/Russian collusion at this point.

It's actually quite incredible that Trump has managed to get anything done considering the maniacal hatred he's faced and the combined efforts of his enemies all over government and in the media to totally destroy his administration.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:02 PM
 
12,003 posts, read 11,905,591 times
Reputation: 22689
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
What’s just as concerning to me is there is only a handful of republicans in Congress willing to do anything about this. How do we keep electing so many R wimps like Sessions, Flake, Romney, et al?
This is why Trump got elected. Conservatives are so fed up with the Rs just looking the other way at the downfall of our country via massive illegal immigration, the debt, stupid wars, unfair trade, the weaponizing of our education system, our media, and judicial system against republicans, etc etc etc
But illegal immigration is down - way down. What's in place now is working. Sure, it needs fine-tuning - kids in cages and torn from their parents is repulsive to anyone with a glimmer of humanity - but no one actually working in immigration at the border supports Trump's proposed white elephant of a wall. It's not needed, extremely costly, damaging to wildlife, riparian zones and aquifers, and will require acquiring thousands of privately held properties of American citizens. It's just the most obvious of Trump's bombastic and uninformed flagrant efforts at creating yet more division and controversy. National emergency?? Not here, and not at the border.

As for the other issues you list, some of them are real (though I'd point out that the national debt has grown enormously and horrifically since Trump took office, while it became non-existent during the Clinton administration), but if the Republicans crave more support, they'd do well to start by cleaning up their party. Far too much corruption, far too much dirty money, much of it foreign and a lot of it Russian. Who wants that sort of thing in Washington, in any party and at any level of government??

In any case, the latest news indicates that Mueller's report will be completed within the next two weeks and submitted to the Justice Department and Congress. Much of what everyone here has been arguing over for the last two years will be resolved with all the new information that will be publicly available very shortly.

Fasten your seatbelt. Surprises and shocks - and a LOT of changes - ahead for us all, regardless of party or persuasion.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:16 PM
 
21,952 posts, read 9,517,840 times
Reputation: 19474
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty View Post
I see conservative media outlets are doing everything they can to get ahead of the bombshells that are coming, joining Donald Trump in attacking the intelligence agencies and our institutions.

Sad.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:17 PM
 
21,952 posts, read 9,517,840 times
Reputation: 19474
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
The Russian asset in the WH is the one guilty of treason.
Who was the President who said, on a hot mike, "Tell Putin I will have more flexibility after this, my last election'?
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