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Russia isn't an enemy nation. 99% of this nation's real enemies live right here in the US.
China is a bigger thread than Russia. The Democrats, in order to make their Russian collusion nonsense stick, have to make Russia out to be the big bad wolf. They are a fraction of the size of China.
Likewise, your last post is reasonable as well. I don't agree that Trump is isolating the U.S. from the rest of the world or our allies but I'll concede that his policies could be perceived as that by other countries including allies which is worth considering. I don't think he's doing anything radical at all by pulling back on foreign intervention in wars, renegotiating unfair trade deals, and calling out the media's blatantly biased, dishonest reporting. It only seems radical because it's outside the norm of the usual lame disingenuous politician speak and the globalist world order or doing things. He's not withdrawing from the world rather he is taking a new approach to dealing with issues and problems. W Bush followed the tired old globalist model like all presidents do and actied "presidential" and turned out to be a disaster in many respects. He played nice with the media and let them walk all over him and it still didn't stop those on the left from calling him a Nazi.
As for no evidence (even circumstantial) of an FBI/DOJ/DNC/Deep State conspiracy to spy on and set up Trump, I have to respectfully disagree. You make some good points about Trump turning off some allies with his style and approach and even some of his policies but I respectfully disagree that he's helping or facilitating Putin. The two things actually tie together because even if he wanted us to have better relations with Russia, the false Russia narrative makes it very difficult for him to try to have a better relationship lest he continue to be accused of being Putin's puppet. His policies and approach have actually been much harder on Russia than the previous administration's approach. It's hard to argue that if one is being completely objective. As for Trump/Russia and the allegations many on the right are making about an illicit "coup" attempt against the President, it may not be ultimately proven but there is at the very least as much evidence of it happening than Trump/Russian collusion at this point.
It's actually quite incredible that Trump has managed to get anything done considering the maniacal hatred he's faced and the combined efforts of his enemies all over government and in the media to totally destroy his administration.
Gosh, it's so nice to have a conversation. I'm not saying that Trump is Putin's puppet, but many of Trump's actions do further Putin's agenda. I don't think Trump's policies and approach have been hard on Russia at all, but Congress's actions against Russia have been something that Trump has had to live with. And I think I am being objective in making those remarks.
As for the "coup", what evidence is there of such a conspiracy? There are meetings with Russians, e-mails, and testimony that are actual evidence of the Trump campaign being more involved with the Russians and their support for his campaign than was proper. While there are certainly a lot of people who criticize Trump, a conspiracy would involve coordination and planning. And there isn't any evidence of such things.
I agree with you that the current level of division, and the amount of emotion being invested into politics is creating a situation where nothing get's accomplished. I strongly feel that there was a similar level of "maniacal hatred" towards President Obama. And this hatred and anger isn't constructive. Our government cannot function without compromise. That's the entire point of the adversarial two-party system, to force compromise, and the entrenched positions that people are taking makes compromise very difficult. But I do believe we will find a way. Just the fact that two people like ourselves on opposite sides of the fence can share their perspectives with each other, can find common ground, tells us that we can do the same as a nation.
Gosh, it's so nice to have a conversation. I'm not saying that Trump is Putin's puppet, but many of Trump's actions do further Putin's agenda. I don't think Trump's policies and approach have been hard on Russia at all, but Congress's actions against Russia have been something that Trump has had to live with. And I think I am being objective in making those remarks.
As for the "coup", what evidence is there of such a conspiracy? There are meetings with Russians, e-mails, and testimony that are actual evidence of the Trump campaign being more involved with the Russians and their support for his campaign than was proper. While there are certainly a lot of people who criticize Trump, a conspiracy would involve coordination and planning. And there isn't any evidence of such things.
I agree with you that the current level of division, and the amount of emotion being invested into politics is creating a situation where nothing get's accomplished. I strongly feel that there was a similar level of "maniacal hatred" towards President Obama. And this hatred and anger isn't constructive. Our government cannot function without compromise. That's the entire point of the adversarial two-party system, to force compromise, and the entrenched positions that people are taking makes compromise very difficult. But I do believe we will find a way. Just the fact that two people like ourselves on opposite sides of the fence can share their perspectives with each other, can find common ground, tells us that we can do the same as a nation.
Gosh, it's so nice to have a conversation. I'm not saying that Trump is Putin's puppet, but many of Trump's actions do further Putin's agenda. I don't think Trump's policies and approach have been hard on Russia at all, but Congress's actions against Russia have been something that Trump has had to live with. And I think I am being objective in making those remarks.
As for the "coup", what evidence is there of such a conspiracy? There are meetings with Russians, e-mails, and testimony that are actual evidence of the Trump campaign being more involved with the Russians and their support for his campaign than was proper. While there are certainly a lot of people who criticize Trump, a conspiracy would involve coordination and planning. And there isn't any evidence of such things.
I agree with you that the current level of division, and the amount of emotion being invested into politics is creating a situation where nothing get's accomplished. I strongly feel that there was a similar level of "maniacal hatred" towards President Obama. And this hatred and anger isn't constructive. Our government cannot function without compromise. That's the entire point of the adversarial two-party system, to force compromise, and the entrenched positions that people are taking makes compromise very difficult. But I do believe we will find a way. Just the fact that two people like ourselves on opposite sides of the fence can share their perspectives with each other, can find common ground, tells us that we can do the same as a nation.
We'll see.
We'll see whether or not Crooked Hillary Rodham Clinton Foundation and Campaign colluded with Russia, whether or not our "Intelligence" Agencies exonerated her and were weaponized against Trump and the rest of us, or not.
Time will tell one day.
I'm with wikileaks, Peter Strzok texts, Lisa Page texts, Nelly and Bruce Ohr, Loretta Lynch and William Clinton and an Arizona Tarmac, Donna Brazile and Crooked Hillary Rodham Clinton's finger and nose, bleachbit, smashed hard drives, phones, blackberries, Anthony Weiner and his laptop, Huma Abedin, Fusion GPS, etc. ... ... ... Comey's memo, Andrew McCabe's recollection, Andrew Weissman's past record... And Jeff Sessions! What's Mr Magoo up to?
The notion of the "deep state" has been around for decades at least. Only naive American exceptionalists don't grasp the concept. If it had been a Democrat President, we would get the same thing we get for those conspiring to nullify the 2016 election. Nothing. Your people control public opinion. It wouldn't be "fake news" if it were a Democratic President. Insane conspiracy theories by conservatives wouldn't be reported at all, except in the context of pointing out that they were lunatics.
Unless the mass media say it happened, it didn't, in your minds. Because of this you are completely incapable of objectivity, and you believe the exact opposite of the truth in this case.
We have had democratic and republic presidents, deep state is new. I recall cabinet members and political connections in several administrations being indicted and convicted particularly under Reagan, Clinton. Ken Starr was around for years investigating Clinton, approved by the DOJ director but the deep state issue was never raised. People took issue with the convictions but I don't recall anyone claiming there was some secret group attempting to overthrow an administration. I also don't recall any president claiming that the media was an enemy of the state, they have made mistakes over the years but served our democracy well.
I don't take these threads seriously when they claim there was an attempted coup, that's for those that don't quite understand how our government works. A publication called American Greatness and an OP that recommends reading up on Dan Bongino for the real story, this is the problem.
Last edited by Goodnight; 02-20-2019 at 03:54 PM..
We have had democratic and republic presidents, deep state is new. I recall cabinet members and political connections in several administrations being indicted and convicted particularly under Reagan, Clinton. People took issue with the convictions but I don't recall anyone claiming there was some secret group attempting to overthrow an administration. I also don't recall any president claiming that the media was an enemy of the state, they have made mistakes over the years but served our democracy well.
I don't take these threads seriously when they claim there was an attempted coup, that's for those that don't quite understand how our government works.
Couldn't rep you again, yet.
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