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Old 02-24-2019, 06:12 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,163 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Big pharma spends big money on R&D. Don't kid yourself.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...er-since-2006/

Pfizer have a long record of being found guilty of fraud.

Pfizer fined record £84.2m over NHS overcharging | Business | The Guardian

BBC NEWS | Business | Pfizer agrees record fraud fine

Pfizer fined $2.3 billion for illegal marketing in off-label drug case - ABC News

Drug Maker Pfizer Agrees to Pay $23.85 Million to Resolve False Claims Act Liability for Paying Kickbacks - US Dept of Justice (2018)

Pfizer agrees potential $785m fraud settlement | Business | Chemistry World

Ands lets not forget Glaxo.

Business focus: Confronting corruption claims is toughest pill for Glaxo to swallow - London Evening Standard

And indeed Vertex.

Vertex Pharma receives subpoena from Department of Justice | Reuters

Then again Vertex need all the money they can get to pay the boards wages, indeed even the shareholders were critical of the wages paid with CEO Jeffrey Leiden in 2014, reportedly earming in the region of $48,500,000 (USD). Vertex shareholders opted for a reduction in CEO compensation in 2015 and 2016, resulting in 2016 earnings of $17,400,000 (USD).

Vertex Pharmaceuticals - Wikipedia

Last edited by Brave New World; 02-24-2019 at 06:39 AM..
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:21 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,959,384 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnluver8956 View Post
I think capitalism is more moral here....
Sounds like a good idea.
We can start by throwing the lobbyists for the insurance and pharma industry out of DC.
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,617 posts, read 1,821,367 times
Reputation: 1258
The reason medicine is very expensive in the US is due to government interference with the free market, specifically via the FDA, and its protectionist laws and regulations. Medicine was much more affordable before the FDA and big pharmaceutical lobbies are what caused the formation of the FDA, in order to create those protections from competition. This is known as crony capitalism and crony capitalism is nothing like free market capitalism.


But then again, that's just MY opinion, for what it's worth.
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,691 posts, read 21,049,622 times
Reputation: 14242
It’s more immoral that the health industry is for profit ! It’s insane that we can cross the border or get on a plane and be treated for far less than in the USA. It’s all about profits and investors and not your well being. Those are hard facts. Govt aiding that -is just double injury to Americans. Btw those investors - many are overseas profiting from your illness.
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,617 posts, read 1,821,367 times
Reputation: 1258
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump View Post
It’s more immoral that the health industry is for profit ! It’s insane that we can cross the border or get on a plane and be treated for far less in the USA. It’s all bout profits and investors and not your well being. Those are hard facts. Govt aiding that is double injury to our society

I suppose you went to college for 7 to 9 years, racking up tons of student loan debt, then spent 4 or more years in residency, just to work for free?

My guess is you didn't spend that time in college, rack up that debt, go through an additional 4 or more years in hands on training. My guess is also that YOU don't work for others for free.
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:48 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,163 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19459
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump View Post
It’s more immoral that the health industry is for profit ! It’s insane that we can cross the border or get on a plane and be treated for far less than in the USA. It’s all about profits and investors and not your well being. Those are hard facts. Govt aiding that -is just double injury to Americans. Btw those investors - many are overseas profiting from your illness.
Governments should be regulating prices in relation to generic drugs, especially where companies have little competition and can hike prices sky high. The UK Health Service Medical Supplies (Costs) Act 2017 was designed to help stop the manipulation of prices in terms oif generic drugs as well as other associated practces such as debranding.

Health Service Medical Supplies (Costs) Bill factsheet - GOV.UK

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Old 02-24-2019, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,691 posts, read 21,049,622 times
Reputation: 14242
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
I suppose you went to college for 7 to 9 years, racking up tons of student loan debt, then spent 4 or more years in residency, just to work for free?

My guess is you didn't spend that time in college, rack up that debt, go through an additional 4 or more years in hands on training. My guess is also that YOU don't work for others for free.
Dear,
The one investing time and money is due his reward. You spent -10 years and a million - get it back plus but - I worked for a huge Insurance broker and that figure is multiplied like 150% fold for investors that never saw one medical syringe.
The same Peruvian dr goes to learn and invests the same time and money and his patients do not pay insurance - they pay the doctor 1/10 of what we had to pay if we did an office visit in us. And the dr does live nicely in his country with plenty of money to spend. The third party equation plus govt interference makes the market a profitable one . I knew a very good Dr in SFL - he decided to cut all ties with ins and was cash only- people stood in line and visit was $45 - he farmed out blood wrk etc , my ins paid dr - visit was $275 just for a simple cold.
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:52 AM
 
11,523 posts, read 14,654,429 times
Reputation: 16821
There's a lot of waste in health care, which needs to be cleaned up, too. That would make it more cost effective, whatever health care ends up looking like. The over testing and over diagnosing of health issues is beyond ridiculous. We had an elder the other week whose PCP wanted her to have an invasive test, procedure. She's pushing 90 and is in a wheelchair and her overall quality of life is not that great.

Why over test w/ this situation? Multiply that by tens of thousands, other people w/ other diagnostics. Is it moral for society to pay to do testing and procedures on someone in this situation when their life span is not too many more years and quality of life isn't very good?
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:53 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,959,384 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Governments should be regulating prices in relation to generic drugs, especially where companies have little competition and can hike prices sky high. The UK Health Service Medical Supplies (Costs) Act 2017 was designed to help stop the manipulation of prices in terms oif generic drugs as well as other associated practces such as debranding.
Exactly.
If we had universal healthcare like Israel, the price negotiations need to be part of the process which is allowed under capitalism.

If there are no price negotations, then that basically gives the insurance and health cartels a blank check to charge what they want.
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Vermont
9,456 posts, read 5,216,910 times
Reputation: 17908
I think the question would be better phrased "Is it a moral obligation for a country to provide free health care?" and/or "Is it a right of the people to have free health care?" as in....is health care a human right? I don't think so, but I still cannot understand why we as a country (the worthless legislature) did not provide for competition across state lines between health insurance providers, which in my opinion, may have started to resolve some of the issues we face in that regard.
Someone has to pay for 'free.' And, it seems, once someone gets something for 'free,' there is no going back.
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