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"Rumors of a ‘rape list’ were promulgated throughout the crew, significant numbers of females became concerned for their safety, and male members who learned of the list were equally repulsed,” Jablon wrote to his boss just days before firing Kercher, according to Military.com.
The petty officer should have rounded up the guys responsible, chewed them out for being stupid, putting that in writing and leaving it where it could be found. Warned them that he will go to cmdr with it next time one is found. He made a mountain out of a molehill.
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Originally Posted by boneyard1962
100% Agree. As a Petty Officer I would have rounded up the idiots, torn them a new butt, the ones within my decision space, and some punishment details would have been assigned.
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They will be stupid at times. They will make mistakes. That said our sailors are among the most highly trained, skilled and professional (in regard to job performance) of any work force in the world.
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People who never served love to stand in judgment of those who do or did. .
The petty officer who became aware of the situation would be, by definition, an E-4, E-5, or E-6. She was told that it was a systemic, ship-wide problem. The article doesn't say if she was given names, but regardless, she did what she was supposed to do - notify her chain of command. It was not her job to round guys up and chew them out. The COB (Chief of the Boat) did his job, too. He brought it to the attention of the CO - who decided that it wasn't worth investigating and tried to keep the COB who reported it "out of the loop."
And yes, I served - 8 years active duty Navy, 2 years in the reserves, and stationed on two ships.
A "rape list" is abhorrent but not necessarily illegal if they did not act on those thoughts. Those that do act on it certainly should be dealt with what military and possible criminal court allows for!
Not sure about it being criminal, probably not of course, but it would fall under NJP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206
Its pretty horrible behavior, but directly from the article:
I think that the media (or anyone) referring to it with that word is being beyond dishonest.
No, it is actually very honest. That does not mean non-consensual no matter how much you wish it to mean that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310
I too served on the boats. Integrating the sexes into the tight confines of a boat is stupid. Single sex is the way to go.
I agree with the single sex, but if they are integrated, i expect a bit more professional behavior. A list, really? This is not high school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquildove
Except it was called that, according to a written report from RADM Jeff Jablon, Commander, Sub Group 10.
I did not read anywhere that it directly stated that was the title of the list, the quotes and direct statement of the title, implies this is someone from the investigation is created the term for the list. But if I missed where it directly stated it was the title, please show me, could have missed it.
What does your comment have to do with the price of rice? Are you suggesting that women who are serving their country in uniform are the cause of the indefensible and unprofessional behavior of some fellow crew members?
I really admire the women who want to serve this country so badly they put themselves at risk every day -- from the very people they are supposed to be mutually dependent upon for survival and cooperation.
Not sure about it being criminal, probably not of course, but it would fall under NJP.
No, it is actually very honest. That does not mean non-consensual no matter how much you wish it to mean that.
I agree with the single sex, but if they are integrated, i expect a bit more professional behavior. A list, really? This is not high school.
I did not read anywhere that it directly stated that was the title of the list, the quotes and direct statement of the title, implies this is someone from the investigation is created the term for the list. But if I missed where it directly stated it was the title, please show me, could have missed it.
As I read the reports there were two lists on the ship internet system. One was apparently called the "rape list" The other has not been named but apparently assigned stars to female crew.
Dumb and should have been anticipated and then dealt with on a ship first dealing with a mixed gender crew. Give them a reasonable deal and the gals do a pretty good job of dealing with this stuff. Apparently that was not the case.
As I read the reports there were two lists on the ship internet system. One was apparently called the "rape list" The other has not been named but apparently assigned stars to female crew.
Dumb and should have been anticipated and then dealt with on a ship first dealing with a mixed gender crew. Give them a reasonable deal and the gals do a pretty good job of dealing with this stuff. Apparently that was not the case.
It was called, The Black Book.
Some Media hack has labelled it, the Rape List. Consensual Sex - BAD
The General Article for sure, though there may be others as well:
Article 134. General article:
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
The petty officer who became aware of the situation would be, by definition, an E-4, E-5, or E-6. She was told that it was a systemic, ship-wide problem. The article doesn't say if she was given names, but regardless, she did what she was supposed to do - notify her chain of command. It was not her job to round guys up and chew them out. The COB (Chief of the Boat) did his job, too. He brought it to the attention of the CO - who decided that it wasn't worth investigating and tried to keep the COB who reported it "out of the loop."
And yes, I served - 8 years active duty Navy, 2 years in the reserves, and stationed on two ships.
As I said, those within my decision space. And yes it is the job of the lead petty officer to lay down discipline on their subordinates. At least it was in my navy.
I can't control what other sailors out side mod my work space do, other than to involve their leadership or to follow the chain of command. I never even hinted at not following the chain of command.
Sailors are sailors and will do some stupid things on occasion. The same is true of all the branches. Like making Iraqi prisoners wear panties on their heads. I know some felt all involved deserved to be whipped, but there are far worse offenses like bad command leadership that tries to go bottom up instead of top down.
It sounds like that sub had a lousy chain of command. The COB is n normally god on a ship even to the CO.
I chewed butt for far less and would have followed the chain of command in this regard. That said it was in reality a who is hot and who is not list. It was in writing instead of just verbal. Anyone who believes that men in general dont swap comments on women they work with are deluding themselves. I have never worked in a place that didn't have guys comparing females and discussing it in a crude manner.
Women if anything are even worse according to the many women I have worked with.
Other than an obvious bad command structure I would say this has been blown way out of proportion.
This is completely shocking. Young military males developed, or didn't, sexual thoughts about women they were enclosed underwater with for months on end. They should all be discharged immediately, I'm appalled. More than appalled actually!
Sub crews were chugging along just fine, and then women have to come and spoil the fun with silly rules like no rating their looks and commenting on which sexual positions would be best with them. The petty officer who reported it was most likely a female who didn't rank very highly and was butt hurt about it. Someone always has to ruin the party.
The best way to fix this and future similar issues, is no women on subs, combat roles, deployed active duty, etc., unless they are in an all woman unit. If women still insist on participating in these predominantly male roles, they should not be shocked or surprised that their male counterparts may or may not want to **** them.
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