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Location: Somewhere between the Americas and Western Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
Yes... anti-Irish nativism of our US history didn't result in the destruction of our nation. No reason why multiculturalism today will be any different. No one looks at an Irish-American today and considers them a threat to America.
Because the Irish integrated and come from cultures which have the same foundations as those which were already existent in the US. The Irish were also forced to assimilate to survive. All people up until about the 1960s or 1970s in the US were expected to assimilate and were looked down upon for not giving up the "old world" customs. These days, expecting assimilation is racist. We accommodate too much.
On a broader scale, look at what happened in US history: A stronger European culture supplanted the native cultures. They were too different. They would never play well together. And the natives were quickly outnumbered.
Looking at trends across the world, the arrival of people from the Middle East into the west will similarly destroy the west's culture over time if it becomes anywhere close to 50% of the population. Islam is assertive, and it has as its ultimate goal the desire for the entire world to be Islamic.
It is, frankly, incompatible with the west. It is really incompatible with any other religion unless IT is in charge and the majority. Then the non-Muslims will have a crap shoot as to whether they get oppressed and driven out (much like the last vestiges of Christianity have all but vanished in the last 50 years from the Middle East) ... or the minorities are second class citizens who have to pay Jizya under Islamic law.
People who deny this history or think it will "turn out different" despite 1400 years of evidence to the contrary are ignorant of history and hopelessly naive and pollyannish. The east Asians are well aware of this. Which is why you see they don't tolerate it. Only the dumb white liberals of the west roll out the red carpet for those that would replace them and their history.
Besides, what's the benefits to the west of importing Islam to the west? Nothing. There is absolutely nothing of value that the west gets out of tolerating or allowing an increased Islamic influence on our societies. Nothing of value for humanity has come out of the Islamic world in about 1000 years.
Do we get more freedom? More liberal viewpoints? Nope. More art? Nope. More food? Once you've had one kebab, you've had them all. Fashion? Well, if wearing sheets and bags over your head is beautiful to you, I guess....
Yes... anti-Irish nativism of our US history didn't result in the destruction of our nation. No reason why multiculturalism today will be any different. No one looks at an Irish-American today and considers them a threat to America.
I will always consider a statement like this ridiculous. What is it that people never seen to get? People of European and Asian origins are more similar in their work habits, family structure, and overall desires in life. This can include some of the immigrants from south of the border but almost none brought as slaves and their descendants. Americans keep trying to wipe away very deep differences in its population, and just digs itself deeper into the racial divide.
Because the Irish integrated and come from cultures which have the same foundations as those which were already existent in the US. The Irish were also forced to assimilate to survive. All people up until about the 1960s or 1970s in the US were expected to assimilate and were looked down upon for not giving up the "old world" customs. These days, expecting assimilation is racist. We accommodate too much.
On a broader scale, look at what happened in US history: A stronger European culture supplanted the native cultures. They were too different. They would never play well together. And the natives were quickly outnumbered.
Looking at trends across the world, the arrival of people from the Middle East into the west will similarly destroy the west's culture over time if it becomes anywhere close to 50% of the population. Islam is assertive, and it has as its ultimate goal the desire for the entire world to be Islamic.
It is, frankly, incompatible with the west. It is really incompatible with any other religion unless IT is in charge and the majority. Then the non-Muslims will have a crap shoot as to whether they get oppressed and driven out (much like the last vestiges of Christianity have all but vanished in the last 50 years from the Middle East) ... or the minorities are second class citizens who have to pay Jizya under Islamic law.
People who deny this history or think it will "turn out different" despite 1400 years of evidence to the contrary are ignorant of history and hopelessly naive and pollyannish. The east Asians are well aware of this. Which is why you see they don't tolerate it. Only the dumb white liberals of the west roll out the red carpet for those that would replace them and their history.
Besides, what's the benefits to the west of importing Islam to the west? Nothing. There is absolutely nothing of value that the west gets out of tolerating or allowing an increased Islamic influence on our societies. Nothing of value for humanity has come out of the Islamic world in about 1000 years.
Do we get more freedom? More liberal viewpoints? Nope. More art? Nope. More food? Once you've had one kebab, you've had them all. Fashion? Well, if wearing sheets and bags over your head is beautiful to you, I guess....
The truth! The same could be said about people from the banana republics below us. Most are backwards without an education and as for their cultures they have lived under corrupt governments for so long that they think it's a way of life. They don't respect our immigration laws because laws are irrelevant in their own countries. Of all immigrant groups I have never seen any that are so adamant about speaking their native tongue everywhere they go and not assimilating into our society.
I did (loved the movie and will watch it again, I'm sure) but here's the thing ... most of my life I believed that America (stemming from what I learned of WWII) was the rescuers of people, turns out that was figment of my imagination.
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You can't idealize any country or person. The truth is always complicated, and you can't grow, if you do not take an honest look at what has been done before.
The US has done some horrible things, and it has also done great things.
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Switzerland has 4 different languages spoken in its borders. There is no "Swiss language". There is a Swiss dialect of German, but several languages are spoken: French, German, Italian, and Romansch. Both the Roman Catholic faith and the Swiss Reform Church are the two largest faiths in Switzerland. Switzerland does just fine.
Singapore his home to Malays, Chinese, Indians, and other groups. English, Malay, Tamil, and Mandarin Chinese are spoken there. A large portion of the population is Buddhist, followed by Christianity, Islam, Taoist, and Hindu. So far, Singapore is doing alright.
The country of Mauritius, an island nation in the east of Africa, is a multiracial country and people practicing different religious. It is known for having stability and racial harmony. This isn't to say that there isn't any prejudice. In Mauritius, national identity transcends race and ethnicity. Some of the bonds include the island nation being founded by different peoples. There is no "original Mauritian". Other bonds include being in a tight knit community and having respect for one another. Mauritius actually has one of the highest standards of living in Africa.
A few countries that have made being in a diverse setting work. I would say that in the pluralism of those countries, the over all identity is being Swiss, being Singaporean, being Mauritian, something that transcends it. There is an identity in having formed those countries.
Singapore is 3/4 Han Chinese and highly authoritarian.
Not to mention racism and separatism among the three groups is pretty common there, from my understanding.
I will always consider a statement like this ridiculous. What is it that people never seen to get? People of European and Asian origins are more similar in their work habits, family structure, and overall desires in life. This can include some of the immigrants from south of the border but almost none brought as slaves and their descendants. Americans keep trying to wipe away very deep differences in its population, and just digs itself deeper into the racial divide.
You forgot that anti-Chinese nativism ran strong in our past as well. Do you know where the derogatory term (sound comes from metal hitting metal) came from? Their influx didn't result in the destruction of US culture.
You also don't seem to understand what "Asian origins" means. India is also Asia. So is Pakistan. Asia is extremely diverse and they are not of homogeneous work habits, family structure, nor overall desires in life. I am Asian.
The Japanese don't necessarily have the same work habits, family structure, of the US.
Overall I find this post lacking...
What it comes to is that whenever there is an influx of immigrants of particular origins, we have always had nativism sentiment corresponding. We have always had a double standard.. we welcome immigrants at the national level.. but at the local level we often see them as a threat. It happens numerous times during a particular region all the time... throughout our history. The end result, is we are still here, the sky hasn't fallen, and our culture remains intact.... and as someone already posted.. it makes America stronger.
Because the Irish integrated and come from cultures which have the same foundations as those which were already existent in the US. The Irish were also forced to assimilate to survive. All people up until about the 1960s or 1970s in the US were expected to assimilate and were looked down upon for not giving up the "old world" customs. These days, expecting assimilation is racist. We accommodate too much.
You forgot that nativism impacted all sorts of immigrants throughout our history. Irish weren't the only ones. I don't believe we should have to accommodate. Perhaps in location... in my area, which is extremely diverse, I rarely see the push to accommodate to every single immigrant culture.
Yes... you are going to have places which will represent a particular culture; China town for example. I don't consider that accommodating too much. No one is forcing anyone to live in those areas.
European culture is different from the US. Their origins are different... I don't think it is very comparable.
The rest of the post is no different from when the Irish arrived and everyone was fear mongering about loosing their jobs. Except there is fear mongering about suddenly not feeling like you are part of the majority... lol As I said, once the 1st generation american born arrives, they will be more adapt to assimilation into American culture... America grows a little stronger.
You only have to do a quick search online to see that Islamic Americans have contributed to our country; some of our most talented medical doctors and surgeons are Islamic.
The truth! The same could be said about people from the banana republics below us. Most are backwards without an education and as for their cultures they have lived under corrupt governments for so long that they think it's a way of life. They don't respect our immigration laws because laws are irrelevant in their own countries. Of all immigrant groups I have never seen any that are so adamant about speaking their native tongue everywhere they go and not assimilating into our society.
While I am of the belief that multiculturalism will not end the US, I do believe that we have an illegal immigration problem that needs to be addressed. Two different discussion points. I would also say that a lot of immigrants from those "banana republics" below us are business entrepreneurs and job creators; if not them.. then their american born children.
Furthermore, immigration from the south has been occurring for a very long time... Texas, my home state, has its roots from Mexico. It too has a distinct culture that I think is wonderful. It hasn't ended Texas but rather contributed to it.
I think the fear around legal immigration these days have mostly been revolving around those from Muslim countries.
I did (loved the movie and will watch it again, I'm sure) but here's the thing ... most of my life I believed that America (stemming from what I learned of WWII) was the rescuers of people, turns out that was figment of my imagination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
You can't idealize any country or person. The truth is always complicated, and you can't grow, if you do not take an honest look at what has been done before.
The US has done some horrible things, and it has also done great things.
Quote:
You can't idealize any country or person. The truth is always complicated, and you can't grow ...
"When I was a child I ate as a child, I spoke as a child, but when I grew up I put away childish things" (KJV)
I made a friend on c-d in 08; she and I have been friends visiting with one another, ever since. She lives in Germany and has cautioned the dangers of patriotism and has a keen sense on the true heroes within our countries ... our communities. Certainly there can be a keen understanding of her views and how they came to be.
In my home growing up was my father and his influence. He was a man of honor, of principle and promise in that of the keeping of his word, when he gave it. He served in the military during the Korean war ... because he was also a man of country, he put his heart and soul into his service doing so out of love.
That is how it was I came to be as I was; then I grew up and as I continued to learn the complications of truth, my views became more inline with those of my friend's who lives in Germany, even before she and I met.
Quote:
The US has done some horrible things, and it has also done great things.
Some one said this in another post in another thread; a statement that has been said before as I have heard it before, "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing…after they have exhausted all other possibilities."
I use to think that was an accurate statement, but I don't any more, because for the u.s. to do the right thing, they have to, eventually see it within reason and the unreasonable seems to rule the day.
Nationalism in a country in which its inhabitants hasn't ancestral ties to it, beyond that of the generation of peoples who came to be here to live in this land, is way beyond my comprehension on how that can be reasoned when common sense should oppose that idea.
People are interesting and they keep it interesting, to say the least ...
I will always consider a statement like this ridiculous. What is it that people never seen to get? People of European and Asian origins are more similar in their work habits, family structure, and overall desires in life. This can include some of the immigrants from south of the border but almost none brought as slaves and their descendants. Americans keep trying to wipe away very deep differences in its population, and just digs itself deeper into the racial divide.
Yes, and at an even more basic level, more similar in their genetics. Europeans and Asians descend from common ancestors who lived, at most, 40,000 years ago, with periods of significant mixing much more recently. They have also evolved under more similar environmental conditions since separating. And, as should be obvious, degree of similarity matters to efforts at integration.
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