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In a 2014 paper published in Emerging Infectious Diseases, researchers in Australia, led by the medical microbiologist Ruiting Lan at the University of New South Wales, collected and sequenced B. pertussis samples from 320 patients between 2008 and 2012. The percentage of bacteria that did not express pertactin, a protein targeted by the acellular vaccine, leapt from 5 percent in 2008 to 78 percent in 2012, which suggests that selection pressure from the vaccine was enabling pertactin-free strains to become more common. In the U.S., nearly all circulating viruses lack pertactin, according to a 2017 CDC paper. “I think pretty much everyone agrees pertussis strain variation is shaped by vaccination,” Lan said.
The issue is those who cannot receive vaccines because of compromised immune systems. Think a chemo patient. While measles probably won’t kill a health unvaccinated person, it poses a huge risk to someone without the immune response to fight off the respiratory and neurological complications of measles.
When healthy people get vaccinated, these are the folks they’re protecting along with infants too young to be vaccinated. Should my 2 month old grandson be allowed to “get sick and deal with it” given that measles could cause him to be deaf, leave him with intellectual disabilities or if he got pneumonia from measles kill him?
Fortunately his mom is being proactive and chose a pediatrician and daycare with zero tolerance for non vaccination. She also made sure any family that will be in close contact have been vaccinated for MMR, whooping cough and will get a flu shot this fall. There’s no way to make 100% sure he won’t be exposed, but she’s doing what she can to mitigate the risk.
Don’t know why you’re going on about vaccines being forced. No state forcibly vaccinates so the choice will always be up to the individual (or parent).
Schools force them. So let me ask you, if you have a family member that can't get vaccinated due to a medical reason are you going to put them in a plastic bubble when they're around others so they don't infect others who also can't get vaccines? You should if you think others need to be vaccinated to protect your family member who can't.
What is it with people thinking they have found some (extremely obvious) "fatal flaw* in science that the scientists of an entire field have just not thought about before (spoiler alert: they have, freaking duh)
Herd immunity is a mathmatically provable concept that absolutely 100% does take into account effectivity rates of vaccines in addition to vaccination rates of the population. This along with variance in the communicability rates is why herd immunity threshold levels are different for different diseases.
Science is a field of study. It’s constantly evolving. Pease share the studies that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that vaccine induced herd immunity will stop disease outbreaks. Be sure to include this for all vaccine preventable disease such as pertussis, measles, rotavirus, mumps, etc.
Science is a field of study. It’s constantly evolving. Pease share the studies that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that vaccine induced herd immunity will stop disease outbreaks.
So what you think an entire field of science just *forgot* to account for vaccine effectiveness rates and just penciled in 100% for every single one? Farcical.
How bout instead of a study I just ask ya how many kids you know with polio? Smallpox?
Lol; not one in ICD-9 or ICD-10. Maybe in the new ICD-11?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones
I'm all for vaccinations but I still don't understand this argument. If someone can't get them due to medical reasons they are the same risk as someone who chose not to. They can just as easily get it from another who can't get them due to medical reasons or even be the one who spreads it to them so I don't see the argument of forcing others to get vaccinated to help protect the ones who can't. That's very oxymoronic to me. As far as it mutating, the vaccines themselves facilitate that. If someone chooses not to vaccinate so be it, let them get sick and deal with it then. They shouldn't be forced to.
Exactly. I'm a documented non-responder to the MV & I can not be further vaccinated. I can catch, carry & transmit the measles everywhere I choose to go & during an outbreak? I can indeed go anywhere I choose.
My status will not trigger an isolation or quarantine order since 'I'm vaccinated' but I'm still a clear threat to every unvaccinated or immunocompromised person out there.
If this 'antivax' hysteria were truly about contagion, this would not be the case. It's not about contagion. It's about compliance & the weak 'evidence' they find to enforce it.
Worried about the measles? Vaccinate &/or keep those who can't out of public during an outbreak & GTFO with your demands that everyone complies for your sake.
As far as being a non-responder; I'd much rather be in an unvaccinated community with only some of the people having natural, lifetime immunity than I would be in a community with fully vaccinated people with questionable immunity.
One non-specific effect from vaccines is that they increase susceptibility to other, more dangerous pathogens* & vaccinated communities are subjected to revolving outbreaks from the very pathogen they are vaccinated for. No thank you! At least the unvaccinated but naturally immune community will only have smaller outbreaks occurring several years apart, unlike the chronically ill, vaccinated community.
How bout instead of a study I just ask ya how many kids you know with polio?
No really, I’d like you to back up your claim with real studies. It should be easy, right? Instead of just assuming that the information in the article that I posted which was written by an epidemiologist was false, I’d like you to do some real research and back up what you believe with evidence.
No really, I’d like you to back up your claim with real studies. It should be easy, right? Instead of just assuming that what I posted was false, I’d like you to do some real research.
You want me to waste my time. Nah how bout this, you have the opinion that runs counter to the consensus, how bout some actual studies that only use an effectiveness rate of 100% for all vaccines in herd immunity calculations to prove the quote you posted earlier isn't a straight up lie like it appears to be.
The mere fact that there used to be diseases rampant in the human population that effectively do not exist anymore outside of a laboratory is enough evidence for most people following a logical thought process.
You want me to waste my time. Nah how bout this, you have the opinion that runs counter to the consensus, how bout some actual studies that only use an effectiveness rate of 100% for all vaccines in herd immunity calculations to prove the quote you posted earlier isn't a straight up lie like it appears to be.
I think that it’s safe to assume that you can’t back up your claim.
Schools force them. So let me ask you, if you have a family member that can't get vaccinated due to a medical reason are you going to put them in a plastic bubble when they're around others so they don't infect others who also can't get vaccines? You should if you think others need to be vaccinated to protect your family member who can't.
Schools are hold long kids down and forcibly vaccinating them? Someone should alert the media!
If I had a child who could not be vaccinated, I’d make sure he was protected by a high vaccination rate at the daycare or school he attended. I’d make sure family or friends who have close contact were vaccinated. I’d avoid anyone visibly ill. I would avoid traveling with him to places in the world with disease outbreaks. During a measles outbreak I’d avoid crowded places. I’d make sure he practiced good hygiene and hand washing.
BTW, the kids who can’t be vaccinated because of compromised immune systems are not contagious to anyone. You can’t “catch” cancer or an autoimmune disease unless we’re talking about HIV which is not caught by casual contact like measles.
Given that fact, not sure why you think they need to be in a bubble to protect others. Remember the Bubble Boy who had no immune system? He was in the bubble to protect him from everyone else’s germs not to protect anyone from him.
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At least the unvaccinated but naturally immune community will only have smaller outbreaks occurring several years apart, unlike the chronically ill, vaccinated community.