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Old 10-15-2019, 09:30 AM
 
73,031 posts, read 62,622,338 times
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I don't celebrate Columbus. I really don't feel I have a reason to. I went to work even though I could technically have that day off. I don't care. Leif Ericson made it to the New World before Columbus did.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:36 AM
 
4,661 posts, read 1,953,608 times
Reputation: 4650
I find it interesting that the Spanish and Spanish speaking European Nations are far more responsible for devastation of Native American Tribes in that area of the country and South into Central and South America than any other group. Perhaps they should ban anything related to that. Oh wait.. it's racist to point out the evil performed by the ancestors of anyone who speaks spanish and comes from South of the Border.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:48 AM
 
15,047 posts, read 8,874,591 times
Reputation: 9510
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
That was almost certainly merely a power struggle among the elites at the time. Its like Stalin removing various people from history because he was "concerned" about their behavior. If people upset the rulers of the day, they dont have any qualms about removing them.
Why are you working so hard to defend a man whose own peers in his time knew to be a cruel and horrible human being? I don't get it.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:29 AM
 
10,236 posts, read 6,322,066 times
Reputation: 11290
Ask TRUMP why he is putting a tariff on imported Italian cheeses starting tomorrow. He is only hurting the American Consumers, not ITALY. I am willing to pay more money for Italian cheese as an Italian American when I cook my pasta dishes than put AMERICAN CHEESE in them.

Go ahead and buy your American Sparking Wine at your Wedding as well instead of real Champagne too. Ditto for Mexican Avocados as well.

Trump is hurting the American Consumers, not these Foreign Countries, including those who are supposed to be our ALLIES.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:47 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,963,795 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514 View Post
Why are you working so hard to defend a man whose own peers in his time knew to be a cruel and horrible human being? I don't get it.
His "peers" were brutal thugs interested in power as much as anyone else at that time. Brutality was the order of the day, by his peers as well as by native American tribal leaders. That doesnt take away the importance of his explorations. And he totally changed the course of history and his voyage had a massive impact on every continent of the world.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:57 AM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,489 posts, read 6,894,642 times
Reputation: 17029
So he was a guy looking for gold and slaves just like most of the early European explorers. Not exactly a role model for anyone. And discovered America? That happened thousands of years prior when early man wandered from Asia across a gap in the glaciers and settled in North and South America.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:58 AM
 
15,047 posts, read 8,874,591 times
Reputation: 9510
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
His "peers" were brutal thugs interested in power as much as anyone else at that time. Brutality was the order of the day, by his peers as well as by native American tribal leaders. That doesnt take away the importance of his explorations. And he totally changed the course of history and his voyage had a massive impact on every continent of the world.
Columbus provided native sex slaves to his men, some as young as nine years old. Here is your hero in his own words:

"In addition to putting the natives to work as slaves in his gold mines, Columbus also sold sex slaves to his men — some as young as 9. Columbus and his men also raided villages for sex and sport. In the year 1500, Columbus wrote: “A hundred castellanoes are as easily obtained for a woman as for a farm, and it is very general and there are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten are now in demand.”

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/columbus-sex-slaves/

I don't choose to honor such a dishonorable man, but obviously you see his rape and sale of young girls as sex slaves as the actions of a man worthy of admiration.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:00 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,963,795 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
So he was a guy looking for gold and slaves just like most of the early European explorers. Not exactly a role model for anyone. And discovered America? That happened thousands of years prior when early man wandered from Asia across a gap in the glaciers and settled in North and South America.
You are using your own privilege of living in the 21st century to vilify people living 600 years ago. Your moral standards would have been very different in an environment of a short and brutal existence with a constant struggle to survive.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:05 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,963,795 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514 View Post
Columbus provided native sex slaves to his men, some as young as nine years old. Here is your hero in his own words:

"In addition to putting the natives to work as slaves in his gold mines, Columbus also sold sex slaves to his men — some as young as 9. Columbus and his men also raided villages for sex and sport. In the year 1500, Columbus wrote: “A hundred castellanoes are as easily obtained for a woman as for a farm, and it is very general and there are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten are now in demand.”

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/columbus-sex-slaves/

I don't choose to honor such a dishonorable man, but obviously you see his rape and sale of young girls as sex slaves as the actions of a man worthy of admiration.
Who said he was a hero or perfect? He was a man of his time with very different moral standards. Native American tribal leaders all did the same. Using today's standards of people living 600 years ago is silly. Life was short and brutal and everyone living today would have a very different outlook on life if they had lived in that environment.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,011,762 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
I've seen that argument dozens of times and it's pretty much the stupidest argument ever.

The argument is that, the fact that American Indians slaughtered each other makes Columbus' intrusion acceptable.

If that's their argument, then we can justify just about any intrusion anywhere at any time, because just about everybody everywhere had slaughtered each other at one time or another.

Maybe if the Chinese ever invaded and took over Europe, we could use that argument and say, "It's all OK, because the Europeans spent centuries slaughtering each other anyway."
The Chinese did invade and take over the Western hemisphere, insomuch as Siberia is historically connected to China. The 'Indians' came over from Siberia on the land bridge about 10-15 thousand BC.

There were megafauna such as wooly mammoths, giant beavers, and 7 foot camels ('camelops'). They were hunted to extinction by the intruders. Where's your outrage, James Bond?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelops
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