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Old 10-25-2019, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
5,818 posts, read 2,671,420 times
Reputation: 5707

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Your employer doesnt subsidize anything. Its taken from your salary. An employer M4A payroll tax work the same way.
No it isn't. If I declined insurance my salary wouldn't go up one penny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
And the employer has great power over you now since they control whether you get health care or not. Which makes workers obedient and meek.
Or there are workers who are happy with their careers and like being rewarded with good benefits for their hard work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
appendectomy for $90k is a scam.
This, I will agree with you with. It was in Los Angeles at Cedars Sinai. I'm sure I paid a hefty California tax.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:30 PM
 
1,705 posts, read 538,502 times
Reputation: 1142
Average cost for a appendectomy in 2014.

US: $15.930
UK: $8009
Switzerland: $6040
Australia: $3814


Paying $90.000 for one... Well great private system.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:36 PM
 
1,705 posts, read 538,502 times
Reputation: 1142
Just found another article from WSJ from 2012, that a appendectomy in the US costs $28.800, and just $3000 in Germany.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:36 PM
 
45,227 posts, read 26,450,499 times
Reputation: 24985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
Average cost for a appendectomy in 2014.

US: $15.930
UK: $8009
Switzerland: $6040
Australia: $3814


Paying $90.000 for one... Well great private system.
The US doesnt have a private system.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
The US doesnt have a private system.
When I give you the option of being beat with a baseball bat or being beat with a crowbar I've given you the freedom of choice.

Get with the program.

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Old 10-25-2019, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,488,320 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister 7 View Post
How far removed from reality are these people?

According to this person, Bernie's plan will save us all money and ultimately provide a huge tax cut for all Americans.

Person asked me where the Government gets revenue from, I said "taxpayers" and they told me I was wrong.

Can we just send all of these people over to Europe?

Girl told me I don't understand basic math...

Soooo, I had to unload these pesky statistics....45% of Americans pay no income tax, and nearly half of babies born are Medicaid.


M4A will cost the federal government over 4.1 trillion in NEW spending the very first year...and rising every year


M4A premiums will be paid for from the federal government by the taxpayer


of the 150 million tax filers, only about 80 million actually have a positive tax liability... in other word, 70 million of those filers have a zero tax liability (get back all they contributed), or a negative tax liability (get back MORE than they contributed)


4 trillion NEW spending divided by 80 million actual tax payers is (if equal) 50k each tax payer


so how is a person who makes 50k a year, going to see a "cut" if their NEW tax bill is now 50k more than their previous tax bill


then you have all the medicare copays, and denial of care...and the 20% that YOU have to pay since medicare is a 80/20 insurance






no M4A will not be a tax cut for anyone...it will be the death of the middleclass
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,005 posts, read 12,595,161 times
Reputation: 8925
It will result in Two sure positive. Everyone covered always and much less disincentive to hire older workers and full timers.

Costs will shift but likely stay the same since congress is owned by big hospitals and big pharma. Replace insurance premiums with tax.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:47 PM
 
30,065 posts, read 18,670,668 times
Reputation: 20885
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
You'll save tons of money, thats for sure.

But if you're satisfied with paying far more than any other country for health care and still risk being denied care because your insurer needs to make a bigger profit on you, then go ahead and support the current system.
Just how would there be so much savings? By eliminating the profits of the insurance companies? I agree that would happen, but it is a small part of total healthcare costs.

If all medical care was at medicare rates, it would precipitate a healthcare crisis, as MANY hospitals and practices would go bankrupt.

Medicare rates tend to be far lower than private insurance, which is why Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic stratify patients according to payer class. If they did not, they would go bankrupt like Henneman did in Philadelphia.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,488,320 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
Just found another article from WSJ from 2012, that a appendectomy in the US costs $28.800, and just $3000 in Germany.
but that 28k was not what was actually PAID


that 28k was what the dr/gasguy/hospital totaled up and ASKED the ins for.... the ins probably paid about 3k
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
M4A will cost the federal government over 4.1 trillion in NEW spending the very first year...and rising every year


M4A premiums will be paid for from the federal government by the taxpayer


of the 150 million tax filers, only about 80 million actually have a positive tax liability... in other word, 70 million of those filers have a zero tax liability (get back all they contributed), or a negative tax liability (get back MORE than they contributed)


4 trillion NEW spending divided by 80 million actual tax payers is (if equal) 50k each tax payer


so how is a person who makes 50k a year, going to see a "cut" if their NEW tax bill is now 50k more than their previous tax bill


then you have all the medicare copays, and denial of care...and the 20% that YOU have to pay since medicare is a 80/20 insurance






no M4A will not be a tax cut for anyone...it will be the death of the middleclass
All the more reason to do it.

Let's burn this mother to the ground.

It's the only hope to teach people that statism is an unnatural, immoral, and illogical paradigm.
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