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I really am tired of paranoia. The idea that any restriction on firearms whatsoever is a "gun grab" or an attempt to totally eliminate the right to keep and bear arms. ... Your attempt to fabricate one is unimpressive.
You've apparently never tried to stand on a steep, muddy slope along a fast-moving river. Incrementalism is the name of the game, and no, it's not paranoia when eight bills were piled up in quick succession in the Virginia House on a party-line vote, checking off eight increments of Constitutional infringement against law-abiding citizens. We don't need a single new law in this area, the existing ones need to be enforced, particularly against violent criminals and the clearly insane.
I've lived there, I've seen the immense bureaucratic overreach in that, among many other areas, and it's an important reason why I'm not there (or in California, where I also spent decades trying to stand against a similar literal decay of civilization), but I'm in Prescott, now.
I couldn't care less what you think about politics, let alone who's in the White House. You don't know a thing about me, so you presuppose everything about me from a single data point, which makes you as prejudiced and narrow-minded as the other loonies. - so much for tolerance and a big, welcoming tent.
You don't appear to have read Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals", let alone the works of Marx, Lenin, Mao, et al. They not only described theories, they predicted the future, and we are now living their predictions. It certainly isn't the stuff of delusional conspiracy theories, it's history past and being written in the present.
You also don't seem to have spent much time recently off the tourist routes in San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, LA, NYC, Baltimore, or any of the other "metropolitan paradises" being run into oblivion by moral relativists and political excuse-makers. I'd be more than happy to take you on a guided tour of Reality as soon as you pony up the air and hotel fare ... but, you're not that committed to being more fully educated, are you?
That's OK, I have more productive things to do, like mill out some more 80% lower receivers, but only after I've earned enough coin o' the realm to pay taxes required by the U.S. House piling up tens of trillions of dollars in debt (they write all of the funding bills, and then dare the Senate and President to shut down the federal government if they're not made law - pretty clever).
After all, I'm expected to support the half of the country that's clearly lost its mind, wanting to eliminate our national borders, and pay all of the freight for those who stream Northward. I'm also supposed to fund shutting down the entire energy, transportation, manufacturing, and all other industrial sectors. I'll also need to fund the replacement of 33,000+ current domestic flights per day, and the 237 million petroleum-powered road vehicles, by solar-powered trains to every municipality in the country ... within 10 years.
Then, there's the not-so-small problem of how we're going to keep everyone from freezing to death this time of year when the Green New Deal geniuses realize that solar heat is just the Sun heating things to ambient temperature, which gets well below freezing in most places this time of the year. Oh, yeah, and sunlight doesn't make for a very good fertilizer so we won't be able to grow enough food to feed ourselves, let alone a large fraction of the rest of the planet - oops.
Talk about delusional theories - is that the Nirvana to which you subscribe? I'd really like to know.
Last edited by Prescott_Pete; 02-18-2020 at 06:16 PM..
I really am tired of paranoia. The idea that any restriction on firearms whatsoever is a "gun grab" or an attempt to totally eliminate the right to keep and bear arms. ... Your attempt to fabricate one is unimpressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogmom13
This x 1000.
Fortunately, you and your ilk are outnumbered by a factor of over 63,000,000, plus hundreds of thousands of (maybe over a million) others who have come to understand what it means to live in unprecedented times of economic and national advances. If you only listen to those you think agree with you, the echo chamber becomes a cacophony of self-reinforcing babble.
I'd also like to hear whether you want what Mark seems to think are good ideas as described in my response to him.
Personally, I'm not paranoid at all because I can legally carry a concealed weapon in all 50 states. However, if you don't think the government is already taking your guns, you're completely ignorant. Since they know they can't take them the way they want to by outright banning them, they are making other laws to collect as many firearms as possible. It started with banning all felons from owning or even possessing a firearm. Sounds like a reasonable plan but what if your one crime was stealing a pair of sunglasses valued at $401? That was a felony in CA forever until it was raised. In any case, a person who took those $401 sunglasses can't own a firearm but the pervert who exposes himself to women or peeps in your bathroom window while carrying a couple grams of methamphetamine in his pocket can still own a firearm because his crimes were misdemeanors. Next they went after domestic violence suspects. Get convicted, even if your crime was as simple as pushing your wife during an argument, no more firearms for you. After that, they went after even those convicted of simple battery...lets say a woman who slapped a man for saying "nice rear end you have there". No firearms for her for 10 years.
But the coup de grace are the infamous "Red Flag" laws where YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO A SINGLE ILLEGAL ACT but can still get your firearms taken away from you. If a complainant can convince a judge that you're somehow a threat, the judge can order you to turn in your firearms to the local police of sheriff. The likelihood that you'll see your firearms again are slim at best and **speaking only for California**, if you do get your guns back, the state makes you PAY to go through a background check all over again!!!
I know all this because I worked in law enforcement for 30+ years and seized many guns but also, my last (3) years, I worked at our Headquarters and was one of the officers you came to see to turn in your firearms. Out of all the guns that I had turned into me, I personally returned firearms to ONE person. It happened to be a US Marine who's wife filed a fraudulent restraining order against him. Since he was listed as the defendant, even though HE BROKE NO LAWS, he had to surrender his firearms. He was able to get them back after the wife recanted her accusations. So yeah, the government is already taking your guns. WAKE UP!!!
You've apparently never tried to stand on a steep, muddy slope along a fast-moving river. Incrementalism is the name of the game, and no, it's not paranoia when eight bills were piled up in quick succession in the Virginia House on a party-line vote, checking off eight increments of Constitutional infringement against law-abiding citizens. We don't need a single new law in this area, the existing ones need to be enforced, particularly against violent criminals and the clearly insane.
I've lived there, I've seen the immense bureaucratic overreach in that, among many other areas, and it's an important reason why I'm not there (or in California, where I also spent decades trying to stand against a similar literal decay of civilization), but I'm in Prescott, now.
I couldn't care less what you think about politics, let alone who's in the White House. You don't know a thing about me, so you presuppose everything about me from a single data point, which makes you as prejudiced and narrow-minded as the other loonies. - so much for tolerance and a big, welcoming tent.
You don't appear to have read Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals", let alone the works of Marx, Lenin, Mao, et al. They not only described theories, they predicted the future, and we are now living their predictions. It certainly isn't the stuff of delusional conspiracy theories, it's history past and being written in the present.
You also don't seem to have spent much time recently off the tourist routes in San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, LA, NYC, Baltimore, or any of the other "metropolitan paradises" being run into oblivion by moral relativists and political excuse-makers. I'd be more than happy to take you on a guided tour of Reality as soon as you pony up the air and hotel fare ... but, you're not that committed to being more fully educated, are you?
That's OK, I have more productive things to do, like mill out some more 80% lower receivers, but only after I've earned enough coin o' the realm to pay taxes required by the U.S. House piling up tens of trillions of dollars in debt (they write all of the funding bills, and then dare the Senate and President to shut down the federal government if they're not made law - pretty clever).
After all, I'm expected to support the half of the country that's clearly lost its mind, wanting to eliminate our national borders, and pay all of the freight for those who stream Northward. I'm also supposed to fund shutting down the entire energy, transportation, manufacturing, and all other industrial sectors. I'll also need to fund the replacement of 33,000+ current domestic flights per day, and the 237 million petroleum-powered road vehicles, by solar-powered trains to every municipality in the country ... within 10 years.
Then, there's the not-so-small problem of how we're going to keep everyone from freezing to death this time of year when the Green New Deal geniuses realize that solar heat is just the Sun heating things to ambient temperature, which gets well below freezing in most places this time of the year. Oh, yeah, and sunlight doesn't make for a very good fertilizer so we won't be able to grow enough food to feed ourselves, let alone a large fraction of the rest of the planet - oops.
Talk about delusional theories - is that the Nirvana to which you subscribe? I'd really like to know.
Thanks for the moral support and very clear examples of what's really going on, k2rider. We'll have to get together and swap stories one of these days. I'm a retired Navy officer, am an engineer and pilot, and spent a good chunk of my career as an intelligence officer, including in Iraq during Desert Shield and Storm. My Dad was Demolitions in the 101st Airborne Division and jumped into Normandy, Operation Market Garden, Bastogne, and the Battle of the Bulge, slogging through all of the battles in between.
He was hit through both legs with a 13 mm Panzer tank machine gun round at the Bulge, as his platoon was reconnoitering a Nazi command post that they were going to take out that night. He was taken POW for four months and lost a third of his body weight, and was wounded again during an escape attempt. He was in a boxcar on a train being taken deep into Germany during the last month before VE Day, to be used as a bargaining chip during surrender.
The train was discovered moving at night by a B-24, which made successive passes to stop the train by bombing out the tracks ahead of and behind it, and then began coming around to start taking out the locomotive and boxcars in which the POWs were locked. In their minimal German and hand gestures, they begged the teenage guards (that's all that was left by then, along with the septugenarian POW camp commander) to let them out so they could spell out POW on the roofs of the cars in toilet paper.
They finally got the idea across as the bomber approached, and it flew off to radio U.S. ground troops that were able to arrive the next morning and liberate them. He was able to recover enough in time to rejoin the 101st as they liberated Berchtesgaden, Hitler's retreat in the Alps where the loot the Nazis had stolen from Europe's wealthy families was piled up.
He was in the Secret Service after the war on Senate detail, but was disgusted by having to keep the Senators' wives away from their mistresses. He was then on the graveyard shift in the motorcycle division of the New York State Police for 12 years, being shot at and run off the road by the mob on Long Island. My Mom was mortified that he wouldn't come home on any given night until we suddenly moved to the most rural hills of Northern New Jersey.
We were effectively put into the police version of the Witness Protection Program, but the police in NJ couldn't keep us alive, it was the NJ mob families who were unwittingly doing that, because the NY families couldn't enter their territory. I didn't know any of that until I began piecing things together while watching "The Sopranos" and asking my Dad some questions. I come from pretty good stock on both sides, as my Mom kept him sane when he would wake up in cold sweats from WW-II and NYSP nightmares.
He somehow managed to resist taking morphine his entire life for the four fused vertebrae in his back (he had seen what happened when buddies turned into junkies). Spinal vertebra disk ruptures were caused by the shock of his parachutes opening while he had 100 pounds of explosives strapped to him, along with his 70-pound pack, personal weapons, ammo, and other equipment. His throat had atrophied during the POW starvation and it would close for upwards of 24 hours where he couldn't eat or drink if he got upset, so I learned to be a really quiet, well-behaved kid.
I didn't know any of this until I had been in the Navy for years, and it slowly came out with everything else. We went to Normandy for the 50th anniversary of D-Day after my Mom had passed away from cancer, and he jumped with 300 other crazy 70-plus Screaming Eagles out of C-47s (DC-3s) that had flown them during the Normandy invasion on D-Day. We followed his movement through Europe during the war, as he had with my Mom during the 25th anniversary of D-Day and follow-on celebrations.
I can relate thousands of hours of the highly-detailed stories he eventually told about what he did during the war and as a police officer. It really frosts me when supposedly otherwise-intelligent people get their panties all in a bunch about things that mean nothing, while they walk among real heroes with no understanding of what they know and have been through. They don't deserve to lick the dog crap off the bottoms of his shoes.
Anyway, thank you for your law enforcement service and lending very valuable additional credence to the reality of the world in which we have somehow survived this long.
You've apparently never tried to stand on a steep, muddy slope along a fast-moving river. Incrementalism is the name of the game, and no, it's not paranoia when eight bills were piled up in quick succession in the Virginia House on a party-line vote, checking off eight increments of Constitutional infringement against law-abiding citizens. We don't need a single new law in this area, the existing ones need to be enforced, particularly against violent criminals and the clearly insane.
I've lived there, I've seen the immense bureaucratic overreach in that, among many other areas, and it's an important reason why I'm not there (or in California, where I also spent decades trying to stand against a similar literal decay of civilization), but I'm in Prescott, now.
I couldn't care less what you think about politics, let alone who's in the White House. You don't know a thing about me, so you presuppose everything about me from a single data point, which makes you as prejudiced and narrow-minded as the other loonies. - so much for tolerance and a big, welcoming tent.
You don't appear to have read Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals", let alone the works of Marx, Lenin, Mao, et al. They not only described theories, they predicted the future, and we are now living their predictions. It certainly isn't the stuff of delusional conspiracy theories, it's history past and being written in the present.
You also don't seem to have spent much time recently off the tourist routes in San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, LA, NYC, Baltimore, or any of the other "metropolitan paradises" being run into oblivion by moral relativists and political excuse-makers. I'd be more than happy to take you on a guided tour of Reality as soon as you pony up the air and hotel fare ... but, you're not that committed to being more fully educated, are you?
That's OK, I have more productive things to do, like mill out some more 80% lower receivers, but only after I've earned enough coin o' the realm to pay taxes required by the U.S. House piling up tens of trillions of dollars in debt (they write all of the funding bills, and then dare the Senate and President to shut down the federal government if they're not made law - pretty clever).
After all, I'm expected to support the half of the country that's clearly lost its mind, wanting to eliminate our national borders, and pay all of the freight for those who stream Northward. I'm also supposed to fund shutting down the entire energy, transportation, manufacturing, and all other industrial sectors. I'll also need to fund the replacement of 33,000+ current domestic flights per day, and the 237 million petroleum-powered road vehicles, by solar-powered trains to every municipality in the country ... within 10 years.
Then, there's the not-so-small problem of how we're going to keep everyone from freezing to death this time of year when the Green New Deal geniuses realize that solar heat is just the Sun heating things to ambient temperature, which gets well below freezing in most places this time of the year. Oh, yeah, and sunlight doesn't make for a very good fertilizer so we won't be able to grow enough food to feed ourselves, let alone a large fraction of the rest of the planet - oops.
Talk about delusional theories - is that the Nirvana to which you subscribe? I'd really like to know.
T I'm a retired Navy officer, am an engineer and pilot, and spent a good chunk of my career as an intelligence officer, including in Iraq during Desert Shield and Storm. My Dad was Demolitions in the 101st Airborne Division and jumped into Normandy, Operation Market Garden, Bastogne, and the Battle of the Bulge, slogging through all of the battles in between.
.
I am also a retired Navy from the engineering trades (Seabee) and a Desert Shield/Storm vet, now a foreign Service Officer. My father was a medic in Korea for 2 years, and while assigned to a MASH unit, earned a Purple Heart with a bullet through both buttocks and one in the neck.
One of the reasons we decided to make Prescott our home after careers abroad was due to the like minded people that live there, unlike too many mindsets in Minnesota where I come from, and California where my wife was raised.
We are happy with our decision for sure.
One of the things I find most frustrating about the anti gun/ gun control advocates is the lack of knowledge they typically have, even when they espouse their opinions with deep conviction (the Dunning-Kruger effect for sure). I call it willful ignorance, not lack of knowledge.
From presidential candidate Joe Biden, down to anti gun/2nd amendment people that spoke very recently to the Yavapai county Board of Supervisors, the willful ignorance about firearms, how they work, who commits crimes with them, what types of firearms are used in crimes, etc...., this all balanced against the utter lack of concern over law abiding residents rights is simply astounding to me.
I have made a point to ensure my wife and daughters know how to handle firearms safely and how to use them.
I really am tired of paranoia. The idea that any restriction on firearms whatsoever is a "gun grab" or an attempt to totally eliminate the right to keep and bear arms. I am actually a gun owner myself. I'm just not silly enough to think that laws against eight year old's having guns are somehow unconstitutional.
If you want to believe crap like that I guess no one can stop you. I don't live my life based on delusional conspiracy theories. BTW, I think our current president is a ****ty leader.
There are real issues this election. Your attempt to fabricate one is unimpressive.
Can we make this a “sticky”? Many need to hear this.
A few points to consider. The second amendment is one of the least 'wordy'. The writers of the Constitution were not stupid. The Constitution is not a 'living' document.
About six months after the ratification of the bill of rights, the militia act was passed which codified what everyone already knew the word 'militia' stood for at the time of the writing of the Second. Every able bodied citizen. Our Continental Army was composed of citizen militias but given a bit more training.
'Arms' meant then what it means now. Then arms would have meant muskets, pistols, rifles, shotguns, swords, cannon, etc., i.e. ALL arms. The second amendment did not say "certain" arms, nor is that at all implied. Why do we think it should now?
The People meant all people. They certainly had criminals at the time of the writing. They certainly knew what crime was. They listed certain crimes that would qualify to remove the highest office holder in the land, did they not? If they intended that persons convicted of crimes should not have the right to keep and bear arms, they would have said "certain" people. Why do we think it did say something even remotely close to that, or where is it implied?
This is a loose outline. The fact is, gun owners are tired of being pushed and giving an inch here an inch there in hopes it will find an end. We see now there is no end. We are starting to stand up and not only say "NO MORE" but because of the fury in trying to classify gun owners as 'nuts' we're going to push for it all back. We have to.
Remember when you could cut out a coupon from the back of a comic book, send off a check, and receive a 20mm cannon? I do. How many mass shootings were common back then?
A few points to consider. The second amendment is one of the least 'wordy'. The writers of the Constitution were not stupid. The Constitution is not a 'living' document.
I'm certainly not an expert in anything and wasn't alive when it was discussed or codified (and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn recently), but it sure seems to me that the Constitution is indeed a living document - how else would you explain the 27 amendments applied to it, or Article Five of the Constitution itself?
It's great to say the authors had it all figured out and nothing should be interpreted or modified, but obviously they did not or the amendments wouldn't exist. They were intelligent enough to set a relatively high bar for changes to the document.
I'm honestly surprised that a reasonable person would assume the framers of the Constitution possessed 220+ years of prescience or that the document could not or should not be updated over time to reflect changes in society and technology. In the 1700's, slavery of people based on the color of their skin was apparently acceptable as was the subservience (and limited rights) of women. In the 1800's and 1900's, society's attitudes to those issues evolved and amendments were written to clarify or further (some of) the rights of those populations.
I mean, I'm perfectly happy to have an honest and polite discussion about all of this and I may well be wrong, but 90% of the posters in this forum will simply resort to name calling and assigning labels rather than actually having an open and honest debate. I've already admitted I may well be wrong on my line of thinking and I'm always open to hearing and evaluating alternative viewpoints.
I am a gun owner (actually multiple, including the "dreaded" AR-15). I don't think the sky is falling. I have no problem with requiring that all gun purchases, regardless of venue, are subject to a background check. I have no problem with responsible regulation of gun related issues, and I'm tired of the "you have to agree with me 100% or you're my mortal enemy and don't deserve to live or speak" mentality that so many keyboard warriors espouse. It would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad that "mature" adults think that way.
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