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Old 03-06-2020, 01:34 PM
 
17,597 posts, read 13,372,722 times
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I think this well written lesson will answer all of your questions (you might not like the answer, but it says it all


https://tennesseestar.com/2017/05/15...ond-amendment/


Quote:
The Second Amendment was approved by Congress on September 25, 1789, as one of the ten initial proposed amendments to the Constitution. Once approved by Congress, the amendments had to be ratified, or approved, by the States. It took more than two years to get enough of the States to ratify the adoption of the Bill of Rights which finally occurred on December 15, 1791.
The language of the Second Amendment has not changed in 226 years. As a constitutional matter, the amendment’s purpose and its scope have not changed during that period either.




At the time of its passage, the Second Amendment was not just a sudden idea that was scribbled down as a singular thought. Each word, each phrase, even the punctuation of the sentence was carefully considered and discussed to make clear that the federal government lacked any authority to infringe the rights of the citizens regarding the ownership and use of arms.
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Old 03-06-2020, 02:35 PM
 
5,181 posts, read 3,097,864 times
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All moot in the minds of many “citizens” who do not recognize the concept of unalienable rights. Others are so ignorant and poorly educated that they believe the Bill of Rights is a list of the privileges doled out by the federal government to good little boys and girls.
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Old 03-06-2020, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,377,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
All moot in the minds of many “citizens” who do not recognize the concept of unalienable rights. Others are so ignorant and poorly educated that they believe the Bill of Rights is a list of the privileges doled out by the federal government to good little boys and girls.
If the rights have to be codified via edict by a bunch of guys in powdered wigs you know something hinkey is afoot.
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Old 03-06-2020, 02:47 PM
 
17,597 posts, read 13,372,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
If the rights have to be codified via edict by a bunch of guys in powdered wigs you know something hinkey is afoot.
It's worked for over 240 years!
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Old 03-06-2020, 02:48 PM
 
10,681 posts, read 6,119,845 times
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50 shots with magazines on the floor, reach for the scope...

Translation:

50 glasses of vodka with reading material on the floor, reach for the mouthwash...
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Old 03-06-2020, 03:51 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,741 posts, read 7,620,616 times
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"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

In modern language it would read:

"Since an armed and capable populace is necessary for security and freedom, the right of ordinary people to own and carry guns and other such weapons cannot be restricted or taken away."
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Old 03-06-2020, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
6,933 posts, read 2,393,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

In modern language it would read:

"Since an armed and capable populace is necessary for security and freedom, the right of ordinary people to own and carry guns and other such weapons cannot be restricted or taken away."
Excellent!
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Old 03-06-2020, 04:05 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,461,442 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

In modern language it would read:

"Since an armed and capable populace is necessary for security and freedom, the right of ordinary people to own and carry guns and other such weapons cannot be restricted or taken away."
Interesting how your 'modern language' version omits the part about 'well regulated'?
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Old 03-06-2020, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,317 posts, read 26,236,916 times
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Written in a time when they did not have a standing army of any significance, now we spend one almost trillion dollars and have a few million soldiers. They had a few hundred soldiers back in 1790, quite different than today.


The words militia and well regulated are key because they did not want a standing army.
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Old 03-06-2020, 04:21 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,741 posts, read 7,620,616 times
Reputation: 15011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Interesting how your 'modern language' version omits the part about 'well regulated'?
(sigh)

OK, I guess we need to get it out of the way for the 571st time....

------------------------------------------

Reproduced in full with written permission from the author (see below):

J. Neil Schulman: The Unabridged Second Amendment

The Unabridged Second Amendment

by J.Neil Schulman

Author, Stopping Power: Why 70 Million Americans Own Guns & Self Control Not Gun Control
Webmaster, The World Wide Web Gun Defense Clock

The following is reprinted from the September 13, 1991 issue of Gun Week, and also appears under the title "The Text of The Second Amendment" in The Journal on Firearms and Public Policy, Summer 1992, Volume 4, Number 1.

If you wanted to know all about the Big Bang, you'd ring up Carl Sagan, right? And if you wanted to know about desert warfare, the man to call would be Norman Schwarzkopf, no question about it. But who would you call if you wanted the top expert on American usage, to tell you the meaning of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution?

That was the question I asked A.C. Brocki, Editorial Coordinator of the Los Angeles Unified School District and formerly senior editor at Houghton Mifflin Publishers- who himself had been recommended to me as the foremost expert on English usage in the Los Angeles school system. Mr. Brocki told me to get in touch with Roy Copperud, a retired professor of journalism at the University of Southern California and the author of American Usage and Style: The Consensus.

A little research lent support to Brocki's opinion of Professor Copperud's expertise.

Roy Copperud was a newspaper writer on major dailies for over three decades before embarking on a distinguished seventeen-year career teaching journalism at USC. Since 1952, Copperud has been writing a column dealing with the professional aspects of journalism for Editor and Publisher, a weekly magazine focusing on the journalism field.

He's on the usage panel of the American Heritage Dictionary, and Merriam Webster's Usage Dictionary frequently cites him as an expert. Copperud's fifth book on usage, American Usage and Style: The Consensus, has been in continuous print from Van Nostrand Reinhold since 1981, and is the winner of the Association of American Publishers' Humanities Award.

That sounds like an expert to me.

After a brief telephone call to Professor Copperud in which I introduced myself but did not give him any indication of why I was interested, I sent the following letter on July 26, 1991:

I am writing you to ask you for your professional opinion as an expert in English usage, to analyze the text of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, and extract the intent from the text.

The text of the Second Amendment is, "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The debate over this amendment has been whether the first part of the sentence, "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,"is a restrictive clause or a subordinate clause, with respect to the independent clause containing the subject of the sentence, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I would request that your analysis of this sentence not take into consideration issues of political impact or public policy, but be restricted entirely to a linguistic analysis of its meaning and intent. Further, since your professional analysis will likely become part of litigation regarding the consequences of the Second Amendment, I ask that whatever analysis you make be a professional opinion that you would be willing to stand behind with your reputation, and even be willing to testify under oath to support, if necessary.

My letter framed several questions about the text of the Second Amendment, then concluded:

I realize that I am asking you to take on a major responsibility and task with this letter. I am doing so because, as a citizen, I believe it is vitally important to extract the actual meaning of the Second Amendment. While I ask that your analysis not be affected by the political importance of its results, I ask that you do this because of that importance.

After several more letters and phone calls, in which we discussed terms for his doing such an analysis, but in which we never discussed either of our opinions regarding the Second Amendment, gun control, or any other political subject, ProfessorCopperud sent me the following analysis (into which I've inserted my questions for the sake of clarity):

[Copperud:] The words "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state," contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitute a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying " militia," which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject "the right," verb "shall"). The right to keep and bear arms is asserted as essential for maintaining a militia.

In reply to your numbered questions:

[Schulman:] (1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to "a well-regulated militia"?;]

[Copperud:] (1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people.

[Schulman]: (2) Is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right "shall not be infringed"?;]

[Copperud:] (2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia.

[Schulman]: (3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well-regulated militia is, in fact, necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" null and void?;]

[Copperud:](3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence.

[Schulman]: (4) Does the clause "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," grant a right to the government to place conditions on the "right of the people to keep and bear arms," or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?;]

[Copperud:] (4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia.

[Schulman: (5) Which of the following does the phrase "well-regulated militia" mean: "well-equipped," "well-organized," "well-drilled," "well-educated," or "subject to regulations of a superior authority"?]

[Copperud:] (5) The phrase means "subject to regulations of a superior authority"; this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military.

[Schulman:] If at all possible, I would ask you to take into account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written two-hundred years ago, but not to take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated.]

[Copperud:] To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: "Since a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged."

[Schulman:] As a "scientific control" on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence,

"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed."

My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,

(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence, and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?; and
(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict "the right of the people to keep and read Books" only to "a well-educated electorate"- for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?]

[Copperud:] (1) Your "scientific control" sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure.
(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation.

Professor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his cover letter: "With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative efforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach any conclusion."


So now we have been told by one of the top experts on American usage what many knew all along: the Constitution of the United States unconditionally protects the people's right to keep and bear arms, forbidding all government formed under the Constitution from abridging that right.


(C) 1991 by The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation. Informational reproduction of the entire article is hereby authorized provided the author, The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation are credited. All other rights reserved.
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