Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What I don't understand is how the virus did not spread more widely before the lock down measures. It seems unstoppable, in other words, very contagious, even now with stay-at-home orders.
This. Right. Here.
Also, how the hell did it not spread throughout China before they realized what was happening?!
Preface my responses by saying I don't think corona virus is made up or a conspiracy theory. My issue is with the reaction. So, let's begin:
1) What led me to believe I was correct? I don't have anything concrete, meaning evidence other than the overreaction. That governments across this country would dictate to people that they had to stay in their homes, not go to work, force businesses to close - and some will never recover - and allowed the propaganda machine to instill so much fear and panic into people gives me reason to be suspicious of their motives. I'm not saying "Oh it's this" or "OH, it's that" because I don't know why. I only know that this reaction was way over the top for a virus that Dr. Fauci himself said was a "minuscule threat" in the middle of February. Further, we have anecdotal evidence of people saying that loved ones, or people they know, were labeled as "corona virus deaths" when the death had nothing to do with corona virus. It's so much anecdotal evidence that there are thousands of memes all across the internet about this very thing. We've even found out that people who were reported as "deceased" are not actually deceased. If nothing else, I question why more people aren't asking questions. They don't have to believe anything is strange, but why slurp up every last thing stated to them without asking any fricken questions?
2) Oh my God, there would be so many reasons for that. Or do you think that everyone in this world is benevolent and peaceful and kind and caring and wants the best for everyone? Because that just isn't reality. We've already seen the lengths that some will go to in order to destroy - in recent history, and in the past. Governments have killed their own people with no qualms whatsoever. Millions and millions of people have been slaughtered by their own damn government. So, when a government says, "We are now telling you how to live", that should set off an alarm in your head.
3) I don't believe it's as dangerous as it's been made out to be. We had thousands of deaths in 2009 with that pandemic, and yet we did not have this level of control on the people. We didn't shut anything down. We didn't panic the people. In fact, Obama didn't do much of anything for quite some time. And when he did, we still didn't shut anything down, and we still didn't have this level of panic.
Further, despite how some get enraged when you mention the flu, the fact is, thus far, we have not reached the numbers that we get each and every single year from the flu virus. Every single year. Every. Year. Dr. Fauci himself said that we needed to worry more about the flu virus that was going through its second wave and inflicting more children than ever before than the corona virus. I've quoted it several times on this forum. So, if we were having the 2nd wave of flu virus, and it was more destructive to children than ever before, why was that pushed aside? Did you hear anyone talking about that on msm, after Fauci said those words? If not, why not? Children dying from the flu, more than ever before, from the flu this year, should have been front page news. But it wasn't.
And I have to agree with what another doctor said, (who I have also quoted on this forum) that the reason it wouldn't sell panic was because we have the flu each and every single year. People don't even care about it much more than some going to get a flu shot. Governments sure don't shut people and businesses down every year, and yet, again, thus far, corona has not reached the numbers that the flu does every single year. Every. Year. No one gets locked in their homes. No one talks about "flattening the curve", no one talks about "social distancing". No one talks about face masks and going out with scarves over their faces. No one alters their life one iota except that some get a flu shot that may or may not even have any affect on the strain of flu that year, which the CDC itself admits.
So - why this virus? "We don't know anything about it". Well, you don't know much about the next flu strain that comes in each and every single year. Sometimes we get one from the past, sometimes we get a new one. And yet, no panic. No shutting down the economy. No paying snitches. No arrests for going outside and living life, normally. No one angrily posts about beach goers. No one derides church goers for going to Sunday services.
The majority, again quoted from a few doctors that I have put up in the main corona thread, are not going to be affected, or will be affected very lightly. The minority that are will have been elderly, or those with other health issues or have immune system compromised.
What should have happened? Tell those who are elderly, have other health issues, or compromised immune systems to stay at home, or take extreme precautions against this, as they would "every year" as Dr. Fauci said himself. Everyone else should have gone on with their lives.
What is being reported? Number of new cases.
What isn't being reported? How many of those new cases are mild.
What is being reported? Number of deaths.
What isn't being reported? The age and health of the patient before testing positive.
Why not? Why are those numbers and facts not being reported?
I trust no one, not in governments, not in the media, not an office co-worker, not a member of the family, not a friend who would push panic and fear without asking any questions. And I question why a government took such drastic measures that will injure far, far, FAR more people than the virus ever would. How many reported corona virus deaths are there? How many people just lost their jobs? How many businesses will not come back, and how many people did they employ? How long will it take to get back to 'normal'? How many people, who don't have the virus, will suffer in that time? Why are we locking down an entire country over this? Why are people not asking questions? And when you do ask questions, why are people attacking you? What's wrong with asking questions? Why do some people fear such questions to the point that it angers them? Why are some so upset that others will not blindly believe everything that they are told?
As I've said, I've long practiced social distancing - long before this virus came out. I wash my hands all the time. I cover my face when I sneeze or cough. I don't touch things in public with my bare hands. I don't get close enough to breathe on people as some do. I have always given people their space. I don't go to places where I can't have space, and I can't give others their space. I don't cough into my hand and then go and touch a door knob. I disinfect the containers from the store, and have for a long time, long before everyone else started doing it. I don't wear my shoes in the house. I don't wear my street clothes in the house. (As I call them.) I do my best, ALREADY, to keep my germs to myself and others germs away from me. What people are doing now, I'VE ALREADY BEEN DOING FOR YEARS, so maybe, just maybe, I can ask some damn questions without someone insinuating that because I'm asking questions I'm going to infect and kill thousands of people.
NO, SIR, I am not. I've already been living my life how some of you are living it now. I did that on my own. I didn't need a government to tell me to do that or force me to do it, so if you're all just now catching up, and will no longer be asking me "what's wrong with you" when I don't touch that damn keypad at the store with my fricken bare hands, maybe I can ask some fricken questions without the drama from some who have NOT lived this way before.
I have my suspicions. I question what we are being told. We aren't getting a lot of actual facts. We are getting part of the story, we are not getting the full story. Tell us the full story. You've already got everyone in panic mode, tell them the full story. Part of fear is when people don't understand something. Then tell them the full story. Give the entire story, not part of it. Until we get that, and we have someone explain why we are at the point that snitches are being paid to rat out their neighbors, you're going to see me being suspicious.
Wow. I could have written this entire post.
100% agree.
(except I do wear street clothes in the house and a few other things you mentioned in that one paragraph. lol. But all the rest of your post, I'm right there with you.)
I actually think I have more respect for folks who actually do think it is a hoax or conspiracy than someone who thinks all governments in the world and people at the top of those governments suddenly saw an opportunity to "tyrannical." I just don't see what anyone thinks the upside is to a bad worldwide economy due to so few of us working and so many stores and restaurants being closed
My Rebbetzin is an Orthodox Jew and she lives a very happy, fulfilling life. It’s rather arrogant on your part to decide how religious people should live and under what circumstances they are happy.
You can say she is happy - but you cannot say there’s no abuse found in any religion. You know it to be true. Many sects are created within a religion and normally spiritual or mental bondage is found. Control is key for it to survive.
On another point - I’m speaking in general - not against anyone or any religion in particular- keep it Neutral.
I get what you are saying, but I think you are being very idealistic. The person who chooses #2 could literally kill you with the virus. You would never make it to mediation.
That is why public health measures are needed. Most will follow the rules (isolation, social distancing, etc.) But there are always some people who will not believe the danger, or think that laws and rules are for other people, or any number of ridiculous reasons they can come up with. And the best we can do with these people who don't understand that their behavior is threatening the common good is to shame them.
This has been an interesting discussion.
Again, I really appreciate this response because you are seeing the logic and acknowledge it.
You're still focusing on the ends instead of the means though. That's usually the case when these conversations unfold, IMO. I'm all "means" and let the chips fall where they may.
I'm not being idealistic. I get that critique too.
People will suffer. People will die. People will be nasty in general. That's the case with or without government.
But
With government you get "preordained" violence. That comes in various forms. In this crisis we see it all over the place: must wear masks, close your business, don't go on the beach, etc.
Hell, in Ohio you have the counties that border PA not allowed to sell liquor to PA residents because PA closed liquor stores but Ohio didn't. Result: folks from PA storming over the border to booze it up.
It's like Jerry Seinfeld says in one of his bits: government is parents for adults. Jail is like being sent to your room.
I understand you don't make it to mediation in that example. Does everyone make it to "mediation" under government though?
How many innocents have died at the hands of cops? How many babies in Yemen have been blown to bits by Trump and Obama? How many Tuskegee men were administered syphilis? 50th anniversary of Kent State shooting is a few weeks away. Any closure there?
Should I start with another State? Or how about another 5 million examples by the U.S. government?
The best we can do is a reputation-based free market. No violence is preordained. The market pressure would do at least just as good of a job as now IMO.
But sure, people will suffer. People will die. People will abuse the system.
But the alternative you're proposing doesn't exactly have a great record.
No, I disagree. Government is table stakes for basic order in a community of 400 million. I was conceptually in favor of anarchy when I was a teenager - I had no accountability for anything, but that doesn't really fly in adult world. Are you an adult? Not judging, just curious.
People need goods and services to be delivered in a predictable fashion, although our current form of "democracy" is clearly outdated and not designed to serve regular people.
When I was a teenager I was a statist.
I grew up...now I'm an anarchist.
Interestingly enough, anarchy is the pinnacle of accountability. Can't run to government to hide or use as your bully.
You can say she is happy - but you cannot say there’s no abuse found in any religion. You know it to be true. Many sects are created within a religion and normally spiritual or mental bondage is found. Control is key for it to survive.
On another point - I’m speaking in general - not against anyone or any religion in particular- keep it Neutral.
Not in my experience. But of course there is abuse in all sorts of situations. It’s interesting, though, how quickly liberals jump to criticize religious folks, with some in this thread saying unbelievably bigoted things, when these same liberals accuse conservatives of being bigoted. I will tell you that the most heinous antisemitic remarks made to me in this forum, a couple so bad I wouldn’t even repeat them, were by liberals. It’s the hypocrisy that is has me SMH.
He said he was ready to die. Again, if he didn't violate the natural rights of others what's the problem with him speaking his mind and acting in a way that caused his demise?
That pastor was obviously suicidal.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
