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And yet, NY reported that the majority (66%) of recent hospitalizations were following stay at home. So what we really don’t know is to what degree the destruction of our economy - and along with it the dire consequences - slowed the spread at all.
Most people who get this will get flu symptoms, if any symptoms at all. Businesses should immediately be allowed to open and anyone under 50 should get back to work. Those in their 50s can be granted additional leave, and those in their 60s need to retire. They’re close to SS age anyway. They can collect UE also until SS kicks in. Not a perfect solution, but better than total destruction of our country.
That's what your extensive experience in macro economics, epidemiology and public health indicates?
It is a stunning display of hubris, IMO, for laypeople like us to think that we've got it "figured out" so much better and easier than industry experts.
Dr. Fauci doesn't know how to do AD and Exchange migrations as well as I do - so I wouldn't take his advice on the topic. Likewise, I don't reckon that I know better than he does how to address a novel virus creating a pandemic. It's simply not reasonable.
The US came into economic dominance partly the result of WWII having destroyed all the major world economies. Keep that in mind. That event catapulted the US into the leading power in the world.
Something similar is going on now, but not with war, but the virus. Essentially, the West inability to control the virus will do for Asia (China, South Korea, Japan, etc) what WWII did for America. The countries that can get the virus under control and get their economies going, simultaneously, are going to move to the front of the world while those that languish in their ability to come together, as a collective, are going to fall the wayside.
This is clear. It would be one thing is the WHOLE WORLD was failing to control and contain the virus while minimizing the economic impact. However, that is not the case. The countries that can do this are the countries of the future.
This is an excellent analogy. I wish more people understood the economic point you make in your first sentence. It is an advantage that we squandered. I agree that we have squandered the advantage we had with Covid-19. We had a head start and ignored it. We should have observed China's response and studied what they did right and wrong. Instead, because our government ignored the virus until it was too late, we ended up with more than 18 times the number of deaths as China. And it wasn't just China, we could've looked at the responses of South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, New Zealand, and Australia. But instead, we are paying the economic and health cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72
I could not disagree more strongly. Liberty is always more important than safety. I certainly don’t want to be “controlled” for my own good or for the greater good. America is about individual liberties. Some societies do embrace the collective good as you seem to be arguing for. Asia and much of Europe are far more likely to embrace this sort of collectivism and “greater good” mentality. This however is not our way as our constitution enshrines personal liberties in our constitution.
Benjamin Franklin said something to the effect of “those who would trade liberty for safety and security deserve neither”. I could not agree more. It seems our division in this country on coronavirus as well as many of the left vs right divides is at its core a division between individualists and collectivists. We clearly have no common values as a nation anymore.
Have you heard of laws that restrict people's liberty such as laws regarding the following: smoking, narcotic drugs, seat belts, texting while driving, drunken driving, speeding, and pollution. I would prefer to drive 90 MPH on an open highway while drinking a beer and smoking a joint, but laws restrict my liberty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
This foolery is the MAIN reason and BLAME for America not controlling the virus. People thinking it's all a grand conspiracy, by the WORLD, led by American democrats, to remove Trump from office in the next election. Note the use of the term "War". In war....you ACCEPT CAUSALITIES as part of the cost. Thus, right there it tells you that people on the right are willing to see many people DIE....just to keep Trump as president.
Exactly! Why is it that some people are susceptible to every conspiracy theory that comes along? It used to be that conspiracy theories got passed from one person to another. Now they get broadcast on TV, communicated on social media, and promoted by the President.
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,955 posts, read 5,546,892 times
Reputation: 8559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
At some point in time.....you have to be CONTROLLED, temporarily, for your own good as an entity. It's about collective good vs individual good. As a society, you have to be flexible and oscillate between the two when NEEDED. The problem with the right is that it sees any attempt to promote collective well being....as a threat to their individual well being, permanently. You all are NUTS.....with your guns just looking for any excuse for a revolution of some sort. You just want to STAND OUT and drape the American flag like you are some kind of got dam patriot.
Pardon me, I feel the need to go and take a shower.
Wrong. This isn't a liberty issue. It has nothing to do with your Liberties whatsoever . This is a serious health issue. People who don't care about even their own health have a mental deficit. You basically have a suicidal Death Wish and people like that are danger to society and therefore should have no liberties. Criminals in particular do not a lot of Liberties. Your liberties mean squat if you are dead. Living under a threat of a highly contagious virus with others who are either too Ingnorant or too selfish to concern themselves with any and all public health and safety precautions is no way to live. America is not about every man for himself. Furthermore this never should have been a political or economic issue. It's a public health issue period.
Give me some help with the bolded.
Also who is supposed to feed us if no one works? Breast feeding maybe?
So you can open all you want but if the public responds the way Floridians did and stop entering restaurants and other stores then all the complaining on this thread wont matter. We have re-opened in Florida and it wont matter, the public has decided staying at home is the better option right now.
This may change in a month or so but judging from local reports out of Tampa and Jacksonville most are still avoiding going out to shop or eat at quantities to keep those businesses open.
I could not disagree more strongly. Liberty is always more important than safety. I certainly don’t want to be “controlled” for my own good or for the greater good. America is about individual liberties. Some societies do embrace the collective good as you seem to be arguing for. Asia and much of Europe are far more likely to embrace this sort of collectivism and “greater good” mentality. This however is not our way as our constitution enshrines personal liberties in our constitution.
Benjamin Franklin said something to the effect of “those who would trade liberty for safety and security deserve neither”. I could not agree more. It seems our division in this country on coronavirus as well as many of the left vs right divides is at its core a division between individualists and collectivists. We clearly have no common values as a nation anymore.
War and pandemic are similar in many ways. And both can require some temporary restrictions on individual liberty in order to best prosecute an effective game plan in protecting our people and preserving our country.
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,955 posts, read 5,546,892 times
Reputation: 8559
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan
That's what your extensive experience in macro economics, epidemiology and public health indicates?
It is a stunning display of hubris, IMO, for laypeople like us to think that we've got it "figured out" so much better and easier than industry experts.
Dr. Fauci doesn't know how to do AD and Exchange migrations as well as I do - so I wouldn't take his advice on the topic. Likewise, I don't reckon that I know better than he does how to address a novel virus creating a pandemic. It's simply not reasonable.
You’re full of “BS”...even the “CDC” admitted that most of us will eventually contract the virus. So whats the point of the lock down...And you call us mental deficit!
Initially to limit more serious local cases over a short time frame that could overload local acute HC resources. More recently lock down is more of slowing down of the same.
But as we evolve moving forward and reopen our economies, those at high risks will have to more effectively hunker down until we can find better treatments and/or a vaccine for the virus.
Really? That's your argument? That the people with all the education and experience don't know what they're doing, but some anonymous schmoes on the internet with no applicable education or experience have it all sorted?
Why don't you figure out peace in the Middle East since you've got this pandemic thing licked now.
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