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There is a vastly better answer and it doesnt have anything to do with private insurance companies or the ultra idiotic idea of replacing insurance companies with a single payer INSURANCE SCHEME.
I mean good grief people, when has reducing supply and increasing demand done anything to help people????
We have death panels at every insurance company. get rid of them and you have a death panel now run by the freaking government that cant even get a letter mailed correctly.
You want a solution? Drive in market forces, drive out bloat.
Every person must have an HSA that is funded.
Every healthcare provider must publish costs associated all medical care. (and not some convoluted system that make it impossible to understand)
Give all power of decision making to the patent and the dr.
use some version of means testing to help fund HSAs for those who are at the lower end of the economy while insuring everyone has "skin in the game" and has a benefit associated with saving money
Everyone is covered. You drive 65% of the cost OUT of the system.
Then build some kind of scheme to deal with catastrophic events. Again all decisions MUST remain between doctors and patients.
you do this you fix every bit of the problem. It wont happen because too many people are invested in government control and the vast sums of money that can be soaked out of the economy.
instead what we will do is fight over which bad idea we will kill ourselves with.
I have also posted a few times that I don't believe that having UHC in a pandemic guarantees a great outcome, too many variable involved.
That's because those States spend less than what healthcare truly costs.
Spending less ≠ Costing less
Yeah look at how much money they saved spending less than the true cost of healthcare.
They spent less, their hospitals were ill-equipped and under-staffed and who paid the true cost?
All those dead people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
Cherry picking countries...again.
The NHS has been held out -- by you in particular -- as the model of all universal healthcare models.
They bottom line is they failed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
Where is Canada,...
Ask Waldo.
"Canada as a whole has a population density of just 4 people per square kilometers, which makes it the 228th most densely populated country."
Population density affects the spread of any disease, and Canada reacted quicker and did a much better job of stemming the flow of COVID-19-infested people into the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
Australia, New Zealand,...
Um, those are islands.
COVID-19 is not human-to-dolphin-to-human transmission.
And, no, COVID-19 does not know how to swim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
Uruguay, etc??
To our Planet, Welcome!
Our Planet tilts on its vertical axis causing the Seasons in the Northern Hemisphere...can you say that? "Hemisphere?"...sure, I knew you could....to be opposite of the Southern Hemisphere.
It was Summer in Uruguay, not Flu Season.
It was Winter and Flu Season in all of the Northern Hemisphere, which includes China.
In the Southern Hemisphere, Flu Season is starting and COVID-19 cases are rising.
Why don't you get back to us after Flu Season in the Southern Hemisphere ends and see what Uruguay has?
In addition to South America and Africa being in the Southern Hemisphere, so are Australia and New Zealand.
So, those foreign States were not hit hard initially because it was Summer and not Flu Season and they had plenty of time to prepare.
Reading the postings in this topic brings to mind a quote attributed to Walter Cronkite: "The American health care system isn't healthy, caring, or a system."
Well, considering that the majority of the top 20% who pay upwards of 90% of the taxes are white, considerably men, they wouldn't be wrong.
As a top 5% earner, this year 1%, I would be moving my money offshore and investing elsewhere. Sure I am a die hard Texan patriot and I'll fight to keep our way of life, but in the end, I am not going to burn money to provide for the non-producing members of society. We already do that far too much.
There are plenty of people like you who hold the same beliefs. That’s why UHC will never happen in America.
So we will continue to pay 2x to 3x for worse results, when compared to countries with UHC. Healthcare will continue to be a rent-seeking enterprise driven by the profit motive.
That's because those States spend less than what healthcare truly costs.
Spending less ≠ Costing less
Yeah look at how much money they saved spending less than the true cost of healthcare.
They spent less, their hospitals were ill-equipped and under-staffed and who paid the true cost?
All those dead people.
The NHS has been held out -- by you in particular -- as the model of all universal healthcare models.
They bottom line is they failed.
Ask Waldo.
"Canada as a whole has a population density of just 4 people per square kilometers, which makes it the 228th most densely populated country."
Population density affects the spread of any disease, and Canada reacted quicker and did a much better job of stemming the flow of COVID-19-infested people into the country.
Um, those are islands.
COVID-19 is not human-to-dolphin-to-human transmission.
And, no, COVID-19 does not know how to swim.
To our Planet, Welcome!
Our Planet tilts on its vertical axis causing the Seasons in the Northern Hemisphere...can you say that? "Hemisphere?"...sure, I knew you could....to be opposite of the Southern Hemisphere.
It was Summer in Uruguay, not Flu Season.
It was Winter and Flu Season in all of the Northern Hemisphere, which includes China.
In the Southern Hemisphere, Flu Season is starting and COVID-19 cases are rising.
Why don't you get back to us after Flu Season in the Southern Hemisphere ends and see what Uruguay has?
In addition to South America and Africa being in the Southern Hemisphere, so are Australia and New Zealand.
So, those foreign States were not hit hard initially because it was Summer and not Flu Season and they had plenty of time to prepare.
Not sure who you think I am, but I have never held the NHS as a model of UHC. I don't like that their system is two tiered.
Dividing Canada's population by how big the country is silly. The vast majority of Canadians live in cities. Very dense cities. Heck even our suburbs are more dense than US suburbs.
"The country is part of North America, the most urbanized continent in the world. In 2014, almost 82 percent of Canada was urbanized, i.e. more than 80 percent of the Canadian population lived in cities"
Your winter/summer flu analogy has some flaws. If weather played such a role, then why is Florida, Texas and other warm climates having such spikes? Right, because this is not a flu.
They rest of your blather is just that.
What matters in a pandemic is a plan. You had one, Trump threw it away.
What matters in a pandemic is leadership,and living by example. You didn't get that.
What matters in a pandemic is to have an educated population that trusts medical experts. You're having issues with that.
Well, considering that the majority of the top 20% who pay upwards of 90% of the taxes are white, considerably men, they wouldn't be wrong.
As a top 5% earner, this year 1%, I would be moving my money offshore and investing elsewhere. Sure I am a die hard Texan patriot and I'll fight to keep our way of life, but in the end, I am not going to burn money to provide for the non-producing members of society. We already do that far too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
There are plenty of people like you who hold the same beliefs. That’s why UHC will never happen in America.
So we will continue to pay 2x to 3x for worse results, when compared to countries with UHC. Healthcare will continue to be a rent-seeking enterprise driven by the profit motive.
Simple fix: EVERYONE pays = EVERYONE gets health care. Forcing a few to foot the bill for many others, as already happens with everything administered by the government, will never happen. The productive members of society have had enough.
...Pre-ACA, we had 18% uninsured, in 2018 we had 14% (& rising), but with 23M losing healthcare coverage due to C-19 job losses, we are back above the pre-ACA rate of 18%. ACA failed to cover all as promised, and now LESS are covered.
This is kind of a weird way to look at it.
Clearly ACA reduced the number of uninsured Americans. ACA mainly covers people before Medicare age, here is the trend for Americans in ACA age range according to Kaiser:
Ignoring this trend to focus on some stat from a 3 month window during a crisis to try to frame ACA as not reducing the number of insured seems a bit disingenuous. Where did you get your numbers on how many Americans don't have health insurance at this point in time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus
Many places in America are down to just 1 or 2 ACA providers.
This might be true ("many" is subjective) but the number of providers stabilized around 2018 and has been rising ever since.
That's because those States spend less than what healthcare truly costs.
Spending less ≠ Costing less
Yeah look at how much money they saved spending less than the true cost of healthcare.
They spent less, their hospitals were ill-equipped and under-staffed and who paid the true cost?
All those dead people.
The NHS has been held out -- by you in particular -- as the model of all universal healthcare models.
They bottom line is they failed.
Ask Waldo.
"Canada as a whole has a population density of just 4 people per square kilometers, which makes it the 228th most densely populated country."
Population density affects the spread of any disease, and Canada reacted quicker and did a much better job of stemming the flow of COVID-19-infested people into the country.
Um, those are islands.
COVID-19 is not human-to-dolphin-to-human transmission.
And, no, COVID-19 does not know how to swim.
To our Planet, Welcome!
Our Planet tilts on its vertical axis causing the Seasons in the Northern Hemisphere...can you say that? "Hemisphere?"...sure, I knew you could....to be opposite of the Southern Hemisphere.
It was Summer in Uruguay, not Flu Season.
It was Winter and Flu Season in all of the Northern Hemisphere, which includes China.
In the Southern Hemisphere, Flu Season is starting and COVID-19 cases are rising.
Why don't you get back to us after Flu Season in the Southern Hemisphere ends and see what Uruguay has?
In addition to South America and Africa being in the Southern Hemisphere, so are Australia and New Zealand.
So, those foreign States were not hit hard initially because it was Summer and not Flu Season and they had plenty of time to prepare.
A failure by any other name is still a failure.
You introduced the covid death rates of select countries into this thread to explain away the failure of your primarily employment based insurance industry.
Now you're attempting to burnish that turd you dropped by suggesting less densely populated and warmer places are naturally going to do better while ignoring you less populated and warm states are the ones suffering the greatest rise in cases.
It's all about the level of "stupidity", nothing more, nothing less. Those countries that had higher figures than yours were first into the grinder. The U.S. is sure making up for lost time and making them look positively brilliant by comparison. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ses-and-deaths
The U.S. had all those examples to learn from, not to mention the terrible one of New York, but what did it do - it doubled down on 'stupid' and ignored all of those lessons to now suffer the train wreck it's so obviously become.
Now, back to the employee based insurance model failure of a system and comparing it to all those countries doing far better in delivering universal healthcare to ALL of their citizens without causing them to go without pre-emptive healthcare altogether or end up paying for insurance and STILL going broke in the process.
You won't see RAM clinics as the ONLY available healthcare in those other countries. You won't see these stats either :
Patients last words to nurse putting him on ventilator: "But as the death toll mounted, a patient who was about to be put on a ventilator in one of New York City’s stretched to capacity intensive care units had a final question for his nurse: “Who’s going to pay for it?”
Those were the patient’s final words to his medical team, Derrick Smith, nurse anesthetist at a New York City hospital wrote on Facebook last week: “Next-level heartbreak – having to hear a dying patient use his last words to worry about healthcare finances.”
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