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Haiti overthrew their overlords and conquered the country.
I don't know if Haiti "conquered the country". That is like saying the founding fathers conquered the colonies from Britain. The slaves were the vast-majority of the population of Haiti before the rebellion. They merely seized power in much the same way George Washington did.
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Originally Posted by Supachai
But look at Haiti now. A festering dung heap that no one is trying to move to while millions want to move to the United States.
But why is Haiti a dump? And what does that have to do with the topic?
During the Age of Imperialism every European Country seized control of various territories in Africa, Asia, and the Middle-east and built infrastructure to extract minerals and commodities to feed their domestic industrial economies and population growth. They didn't build the infrastructure for the benefit of the people in those countries, but for themselves.
How else are they going to get minerals from the Jungles of Africa to Europe without building roads, bridges, ports, and then dams for electricity.
Moreover, I think you are looking at the world through a very materialistic mindset. You seem to think the Natives should be happy what happened to them because they are rich now. But let me ask, have you ever heard the story of Cynthia Ann Parker?
She was a white girl who was kidnapped by the Comanche Indians and raised as a Comanche until the Comanche were defeated. But she refused to rejoin white society because she hated it, and ended up starving herself to death. There were a lot of white people who went to live with the Indians, very few Indians ever willingly came to live with whitey until they had no other choice.
Of course it's not acceptable! That's not the point.
The point is - or, the points are - no one should be surprised if protests occasionally spill over into violence. Let's not pretend this is the French Revolution. And, if anything, Trump should be blamed for the problem, not turned to as a solution.
Really noone should be surprised at violence, are you serious you condone it. If anything Democrats are to blame 100 Percent. I have not seen Biden, obama, Pelosi denouncing these riots.
The destruction of businesses including immigrant, minority owned businesses. Did you not notice how they were destroyed,
I don't know if Haiti "conquered the country". That is like saying the founding fathers conquered the colonies from Britain. The slaves were the vast-majority of the population of Haiti before the rebellion. They merely seized power in much the same way George Washington did.
But why is Haiti a dump? And what does that have to do with the topic?
Haiti is a dump because the people that live there have no idea how to build a stable society. Demographics matter, as you have already pointed out, and that is what was being discussed.
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
During the Age of Imperialism every European Country seized control of various territories in Africa, Asia, and the Middle-east and built infrastructure to extract minerals and commodities to feed their domestic industrial economies and population growth. They didn't build the infrastructure for the benefit of the people in those countries, but for themselves.
How else are they going to get minerals from the Jungles of Africa to Europe without building roads, bridges, ports, and then dams for electricity.
Moreover, I think you are looking at the world through a very materialistic mindset. You seem to think the Natives should be happy what happened to them because they are rich now. But let me ask, have you ever heard the story of Cynthia Ann Parker?
Yes, European countries looked to a lot of areas that they conquered just as a source of materials and money, but that isn't unique to the Europeans. Peoples around the world have been conquering others for tens of thousands of years and it was usually to take their resources, whether that was material resources or women. Though in some cases, the conquered people were better off for it, though most conquered people don't like to admit that.
And yes, I know of Cynthia Ann Parker though I'm not sure how that's relevant. She was kidnapped as a child and knew no other life than her Comanche life. She didn't want to go back to her White life because it was foreign to her and she had a family with the Comanches. It wasn't because Comanche life was so superior.
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
Or let me put it like this, the Amish are much happier than you. They think you're a degenerate who is probably going to hell.
I was born in Oklahoma and I'm part Cherokee Indian. This is my country, it is you who needs to leave it.
Regardless, this conversation points out some of the reasons a lot of people hate America. America is not a nation, it is not an ethnic group. It is a conquered continent, held together by force. And a significant portion of the country wants out of the union.
The only reason people want to be here is money. That is why immigrants come here today, and that is why they have always come here. Take away money and there is no United States, we hate each other.
Yes, this is your country. Everyone seems to forget that.
Haiti is a dump because the people that live there have no idea how to build a stable society. Demographics matter, as you have already pointed out, and that is what was being discussed.
I think Haiti started out on bad terms with Western powers and is a small island with very few natural resources. Pretty much the only resource it has are trees.
Most of the Caribbean depends on tourism from the United States, but Haiti is not some place many people want to visit(for a lot of reasons, demographics definitely being one).
Cuba was the biggest tourist hotspot in Latin-America until the Castro Revolution. That is why most of the cars in Cuba are 1950's models. Without trade with "The West", Cuba couldn't purchase manufactured goods, and it doesn't have the natural resources to build any industry itself. Plus it was too far away to trade anything with the Soviet Union(all it had was sugar, and not even that much because communism).
Hawaii is an island and it is rich, but not because it has industry, but because the entire state is basically a big resort for rich white people from the mainland. If you tried to create a civilization on Hawaii without trade you wouldn't even reach the bronze age.
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Originally Posted by Supachai
Though in some cases, the conquered people were better off for it, though most conquered people don't like to admit that.
Depends on what you mean by better off. If you're defining better off only in terms of "material standard of living" then in almost every case they were better off. But I don't think material standard-of-living matters as much as you think.
I mentioned Cynthia Ann Parker because, as much as we love talking about poverty. I don't think applying the concept of poverty to indigenous peoples is very useful. If you think of the most primitive people in the world, they aren't the ones trying to immigrate to other countries. Actual primitive people generally like their way-of-life and have little interest in going anywhere.
Poverty really only applies to what I would call "landless peasants". Mostly people living in cities, or who simply don't have any land on which they can earn a living. The number of landless peasants has skyrocketed in the last 200 years, not only because of colonialism, but also because of technology. Tractors and other heavy equipment have put out-of-business the vast majority of small farmers. This is especially true in developing countries who cannot compete against American heavy industrial agriculture.
I was reading an article about these cowboy entrepreneurs who are going into Africa as farmers, leasing the land from African governments. But the situation is actually pretty awful. The tribespeople use the land as like common land, they graze their livestock, pick fruits from the trees, etc. But since they aren't using it for any economic activity, they aren't paying any taxes to the government. So the government made a deal with these European farmers who pay to lease the land, making the government happy because they have revenue. The problem is you have a bunch of tribespeople who have to be thrown off the land. In one case the government used part of the rent money to build apartments for them in the city which they would give to them for free.
On the surface this seems like a humanitarian project, the government offering tribespeople who were living in mudhuts, free apartments in the city. But it is nothing of the sort. It is a business decision on the part of the government, and these people now have to sell their labor in the cities or starve. Their material standard-of-living is better, but they are socially worse off and less free.
With that said, I'm a bit of a primitivist. I think man was much happier before civilization. The internet is great, but it seems to have left people angrier and less happy. And that seems to be the case of all technology. Which is why I mentioned the Amish. Who shun technology, and as a result they actually talk to each other, they know each other, they work together.
So when I see white people bragging about their "civilization", it is like bragging about drinking poison. It may have enabled you to rule the world, and to grind most of the world into poverty, but it is still poison.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 07-05-2020 at 06:19 AM..
Has me seriously considering to slap a Trump 2020 sticker on the vehicle and go and vote for the man again in November. I don't care for his arrogance or ego but the main reason I had stopped being a supporter was I felt he was becoming weak on main issues I cared about, he seems to be starting to swing back in the correct direction on immigration and its all starting to push me back towards him. They aren't just attacking him they are attacking ME personally and my family and my ancestors who have been here since the founding of this country and fought in every war its been in.
I'm in agreement that rioting and looting is a akin to pure hatred of what America stands for.
Just wanted to reach over and give you props for not immediately associating protestors with looters and riots...
Peaceful protests is something America should support.
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