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However, just in passing so as to not get too OT, my guess is that you have socialistic (or at least "liberal") leanings, while I am one of those free-market conservatives who believes the market should determine wages and prices.
So you are actually saying that when slavery is profitable and the masses make use of a slave there’s actually nothing wrong with it? That the free market ideology surpasses the idea of individual human rights?
Free markets will go where they will go. There is absolutely nothing to encourage them in positive or constructive directions. There is absolutley nothing to constrain them from settling into socially undesirable and even unacceptable equilibria. People who blindly put their faith in free markets will always be disappointed with the results. Markets are a tool. Like a wild stallion, they have to be broken before they can be of any reliable or useful service.
As for Goldberg, he's a crock, as is Sowell for that matter. These are paid partisan apologists, not unbiased analysts. In this case, Goldberg attempts to use the weak argument to undo the strong. Tuskegee was not "okay" because none of the patients was injected with syphillis. It would have been even worse if they had been, but it was still quite bad thank you just the way it was, and people are quite proper in looking back as they do on that episode with a harsh eye.
If anyone really wanted to look at popularly held misconceptions about history such that another one might bite the dust, all that would be necessary is to review the right-wing version of almost anything. Like other propaganda engines before it, the right-wing disinformation media have put a good deal of time and effort into respinning just about everything, and their work has become generally accepted in certain circles, some representatives of which post on C-D. Reagan won the Cold War, Clinton was guilty of perjury, tax cuts increase revenues, Social Security is going bankrupt, and of course, Iraq had WMD. None of these things is true or ever has been. But they are and have been believed by millions. Come up with a theory as to how that happened. People like Goldberg and Sowell will likely be a part of it...
Nevertheless, when we use economic doctrines as our guidance for our moral principles it will spell the beginning of the end.
BTW no economical market (free or otherwise) is an excuse to relieve us from our moral & civil responsibilities.
Nevertheless, when we use economic doctrines as our guidance for our moral principles it will spell the beginning of the end. BTW no economical market (free or otherwise) is an excuse to relieve us from our moral & civil responsibilities.
Agreed in general. Was addressing the attitudes of one of the free-marketeers, in particular the idea that free markets are somehow "wiser" than those who would see them constrained. In my view, such ideas are an illustration of the notion that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...
The issue isn't slavery, it's human experimentation and racism. Couldn't we debate slavery in some other thread and keep this one on topic?
Well, there was no specification on race, but our government has tested chemical weapons and LSD on American soldiers...and prisoners (oh...LSD only. Now ELECTROSHOCK therapy...that WAS used on prisoners.)
Originally Posted by TexasRebSo you are actually saying that when slavery is profitable and the masses make use of a slave there’s actually nothing wrong with it? That the free market ideology surpasses the idea of individual human rights?
I said what I said concerning chattel slavery. Go back and read it if you are unclear.
As to the other point. It is not human rights vs. market rights. It is free choice vs. coersion and control. Simple as that. Turning it into something else is just a rhetorical ploy, and I am not surprised. The free market is the sum total -- the collective wisdom -- of people making free choices concerning their business and personal preferences in terms of goods and services. A controlled market is a few making decisions for many, either to gain power and profit for themselves or because they believe themselves wiser than the people you call "the masses." Or both.
Free markets will go where they will go. There is absolutely nothing to encourage them in positive or constructive directions. There is absolutley nothing to constrain them from settling into socially undesirable and even unacceptable equilibria. People who blindly put their faith in free markets will always be disappointed with the results. Markets are a tool. Like a wild stallion, they have to be broken before they can be of any reliable or useful service.
Yes and we all know how well socialism has served us in the past century. It had slaves too. People's Republic of China, Cambodia, North Korea, USSR, and so on. Man, they all had slavery and some still do. Must be that free market influence.
(To anyone who is not familiar, Saganista has stated that he is socialist in the past. I think he stated that he is a Communist as well. This isn't "You criticized an aspect of the free market! Commie!" kind of remark.)
Quote:
As for Goldberg, he's a crock, as is Sowell for that matter. These are paid partisan apologists, not unbiased analysts. In this case, Goldberg attempts to use the weak argument to undo the strong. Tuskegee was not "okay" because none of the patients was injected with syphillis. It would have been even worse if they had been, but it was still quite bad thank you just the way it was, and people are quite proper in looking back as they do on that episode with a harsh eye.
Strawman. Nobody is claiming that Tuskegee was okay, it violated countless ethical principles and caused a lot of people who could have been cured
to die or end up brain damaged.
What he is saying that the government did not infect the men who were experimented on with syphilis. There is a big difference between the two, especially when people mistakenly believe the later as justification for conspiracy theories.
Quote:
Reagan won the Cold War, Clinton was guilty of perjury, tax cuts increase revenues, Social Security is going bankrupt, and of course, Iraq had WMD. None of these things is true or ever has been. But they are and have been believed by millions. Come up with a theory as to how that happened. People like Goldberg and Sowell will likely be a part of it...
Yes, because extremely high taxes have no negative effect on the economy which can cause it to stagnate or people to evade taxes. And we all know social security is going alone swimmingly especially since there are only going to be about 2 or 3 people paying into social security for every retiree and that cannot possibly result in extremely high taxes (silly me, I forgot those don't hurt the economy) or result social security payments being extremely low.
Oh, I forgot to mention how stupid it was for anyone to think that Saddam might have WMDs when he did at one point and was constantly kicking weapons inspectors out of the country and restricting the places where they could and could not go. That didn't seem especially suspicious.
I would believe MAN or a government created AIDS but not for the purpose of killing any race. Mostly a experiment gone wrong.
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That the free market ideology surpasses the idea of individual human rights?
People's Republic of China, Cambodia, North Korea, USSR, and so on. Man, they all had slavery and some still do. Must be that free market influence.
