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Holy cow, she was not PEEKING through a window. She was jumping into a zone that was a NO GO zone. her whole body was almost through the window and into the hall when he shot. Stop down playing what this person did.
Theres a more complete photo not zoomed in and cut like that circulating around that shows the room was basically empty except for them. They were not defending anybody at that point. They killed a woman for peeking through broken glass and viewing an empty room.
She helped break and then crawl through a window, crossing a barricaded threshold that was barricaded for the protection of the people on the other side. There were rooms and hallways that went beyond just what was behind the one door.
If someone did that at your home, broke a window and then started to crawl through, and you were armed, would you just sit there or stand there calmly? Let's not be disingenuous. If you perceived that your life or the life of anyone inside your home might be in imminent danger, you would certainly use whatever weapon you had to protect yourself. Most people would, including the very people who were breaking down Capital doors and windows.
Theres a more complete photo not zoomed in and cut like that circulating around that shows the room was basically empty except for them. They were not defending anybody at that point. They killed a woman for peeking through broken glass and viewing an empty room.
There were multiple officers immediately behind the woman who made no effort to stop her or to fire their weapons. Not one of any of those multiple other officers present considering her a threat to use lethal force on speaks volumes.
There are two photos of two different situations.. you are confusing the two.
Woman shot was already climbing through the window of a barricaded door. He wasn't guarding a room but a hall of offices with Congress members sheltering in place. There is also video of this situation. She was indeed shot by the officer as she was in the process of climbing through the door window. There is an interview of a man saying the same.. he claims to be right behind her and was going to also climb through after her. Obviously he did not after she was shot in front of him.
There is another photo with officers pointing guns at a barricaded door on senate floor. By then the room was indeed already empty. There is a person peaking through a broken glass in the door. This was occuring while Senate members were being evacuated to an undisclosed area. Those officers DID NOT shoot the person peaking through the broken glass.
There are multiple Capitol police officers. The uniformed ones were trying to limit the mob movements. Of course they do not see an immediate threat to Congress members. There are also plain clothed officers task directly with protecting members of Congress... behind barricades. A breach of that barricade is as much of a threat to those they are protecting as someone trying to break down the door of your house as you protect your family.
i don't believe any reasonable person who actually saw the video would describe it as someone "merely popping their head through a door".
I think most sane people would see the video, see that she hadn't even gotten half-way through the door, that the cop barely saw her before he shot her in the neck.
So no, she didn't actually make it through the barricade, her feet never touched the ground, and she wasn't threatening anyone.
He could have walked out a few feet, ordered her to stop instead of just shooting. But he was so terrified that he was sitting behind a wall, and only popped out to shoot her when he saw a head pop through a door frame.
There is no way I would have done the same thing. And there were cops everywhere, cops behind him, cops in front of him. It wasn't like it was him against the world.
The cop was just being a trigger-happy coward. That is what he was. Not some hero, not a brave officer of the law. A trigger-happy coward.
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Originally Posted by usayit
The question is would the Secret Service risk POTUS assassination on the off chance that an unarmed person was actually armed.
I'm not sure why a gender matters here.
Secret service use lethal force as a last resort. Only when there is a reasonable expectation that the person intends to do serious harm, and only if there are no less-lethal alternatives. That is protocol.
Now, did this police officer believe this women intended to do serious harm? Were there no less-lethal alternatives?
If the rioters had been making threats, brandishing weapons(brandishing doesn't mean carrying, it means displaying in a threatening manner), or had shot at the officer, that would give him a reasonable expectation that they intend to do serious harm.
And were there less-lethal alternatives? Absolutely.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-07-2021 at 10:09 PM..
Your great leader made a statement today condemning those law breakers who stormed the capitol. They all were rebels without a cause or leader.
I don't have a great leader. And I'm not a boot-licking sycophant either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon3290
Holy cow, she was not PEEKING through a window.
Who said she was peeking through a window? She was climbing up into a doorframe, intending to breach the barricade, and she had barely gotten her head through when she got shot.
The question is, was that the reasonable thing for the cop to do? Is that what you would have done?
People breach no-go zones all the time, they jump the White House fence, some have even made it into the White House itself.
Procedure isn't to just shoot anyone who jumps a barricade. If that was the case the cops would have shot the hundreds of people outside who jumped multiple barricades and fought with the police(which some of you wish they would have done).
She helped break and then crawl through a window, crossing a barricaded threshold that was barricaded for the protection of the people on the other side. There were rooms and hallways that went beyond just what was behind the one door.
If someone did that at your home, broke a window and then started to crawl through, and you were armed, would you just sit there or stand there calmly? Let's not be disingenuous. If you perceived that your life or the life of anyone inside your home might be in imminent danger, you would certainly use whatever weapon you had to protect yourself. Most people would, including the very people who were breaking down Capital doors and windows.
Those federal LEO's have rules of engagement concerning lethal force and the situation did not meet the standards. Even at the White House the secret service does not use lethal force for simply breaking into the fence or even the building. This wasn't a burglar breaking into my private home where the public is never welcome to simply enter. This was a bunch of rowdy protesters in the Capitol building which is owned by all the people of this nation and which was intended to always be open to them. It did not merit lethal force. Members of congress were already evacuated and safe.
[quote=arctichomesteader;60096925]Those federal LEO's have rules of engagement concerning lethal force and the situation did not meet the standards.
Says you. Are you involved in investigating this situation? Have you talked to all the participants and witnesses? I haven't.
Quote:
Even at the White House the secret service does not use lethal force for simply breaking into the fence or even the building. This wasn't a burglar breaking into my private home where the public is never welcome to simply enter. This was a bunch of rowdy protesters in the Capitol building which is owned by all the people of this nation and which was intended to always be open to them. It did not merit lethal force. Members of congress were already evacuated and safe.
You're making assumptions based on what you think you know and, most importantly, with hindsight. An investigation will determine what was known and believed at the time.
Someone bashing in windows and doors and coming through does not have the right to do that, no matter how much others want to make it a nothingburger. The rioters made decisions. Decisions to storm the Capital. Decisions to break windows, doors, and enter unlawfully. Those choices had consequences. They chose those actions with all the attendant risks therein.
Yes...and breachers of WH security are shot: May 20, 2016, Aug. 10, 2020.
I suppose climbing up a doorframe is OK in the chaos? Or barely getting her head through?
In the movie, The Lion King there is a stampede scene where a cub is innocently caught up in a stampede. That wasn't the case here, she was a willing part of the stampede. She is responsible for her actions, she put herself in that situation. She could have stayed on the grounds instead of being part of a mob.
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