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Old 02-01-2021, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
18,759 posts, read 11,802,578 times
Reputation: 64167

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
He should. It's open and shut. All he has to do is show the vid of him telling people to peacefully march.
Was that before or after he told people to fight like hell or you won't have a country? How about his other team of sycophant mouth pieces telling them lets have trial by combat. Or we're going to take names and kick ass. We all know what he did. There should be no excuse for this, but like all good sheeple involved with cult like mentality, dear leader can do no wrong. We should all want better for this country.



I hope you're right robr2 about Trump not being able to delay the trial, but don't forget, it was pushed up 2 weeks so that Trump could assemble his legal team. To be fair, Schumer agreed to it as well. There's one more off ramp to not convict because he was already out of office. Had they wanted a conviction, the trial could have been held his final week in office and he could have been removed immediately.

Is one week enough time for his new legal team to be prepared? It doesn't matter. The feckless republican's are too afraid of the lunatic fringe base to convict. They'd rather have the vote than justice.
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Old 02-01-2021, 08:57 AM
 
9,887 posts, read 7,223,915 times
Reputation: 11479
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
Was that before or after he told people to fight like hell or you won't have a country? How about his other team of sycophant mouth pieces telling them lets have trial by combat. Or we're going to take names and kick ass. We all know what he did. There should be no excuse for this, but like all good sheeple involved with cult like mentality, dear leader can do no wrong. We should all want better for this country.



I hope you're right robr2 about Trump not being able to delay the trial, but don't forget, it was pushed up 2 weeks so that Trump could assemble his legal team. To be fair, Schumer agreed to it as well. There's one more off ramp to not convict because he was already out of office. Had they wanted a conviction, the trial could have been held his final week in office and he could have been removed immediately.

Is one week enough time for his new legal team to be prepared? It doesn't matter. The feckless republican's are too afraid of the lunatic fringe base to convict. They'd rather have the vote than justice.
Reports today state that new attorneys have been put in place. Their initial filings are due tomorrow. Both have stated in the past that the trial is unconstitutional but it will be interesting to see what they file tomorrow especially in the light that the defendant didn't want to use that as the basis of his defense.
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Old 02-01-2021, 08:57 AM
 
5,938 posts, read 4,701,557 times
Reputation: 4631
Sadly, it won't matter who Trump's impeachment defense lawyers are. Republican Senators already showed their hand - 45 don't think the impeachment trial should even be held for a non-incumbent.

Now, if the Senate worked the way it should... that shouldn't matter. Senators should be asked to judge Trump based on the merits of the case. The Senate already decided the case should go forward. However, this is what they did in the last impeachment trial. Some Republican Senators simply decided to say "let the American people decide the President's fate in November." But that wasn't what they were asked to vote on. These same Senators also said they didn't want to see evidence. So yeah, there's that.

Trump could send no defense and he'll still not lose this trial.
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Old 02-01-2021, 09:42 AM
 
51,655 posts, read 25,843,388 times
Reputation: 37895
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
Sadly, it won't matter who Trump's impeachment defense lawyers are. Republican Senators already showed their hand - 45 don't think the impeachment trial should even be held for a non-incumbent.

Now, if the Senate worked the way it should... that shouldn't matter. Senators should be asked to judge Trump based on the merits of the case. The Senate already decided the case should go forward. However, this is what they did in the last impeachment trial. Some Republican Senators simply decided to say "let the American people decide the President's fate in November." But that wasn't what they were asked to vote on. These same Senators also said they didn't want to see evidence. So yeah, there's that.

Trump could send no defense and he'll still not lose this trial.
Bingo.

As Roy Cohn told him years ago, no need to know the law, just need to know the judges.

In any case, it's actually the Republican Party on trial here.

If Republicans decide to embrace the Jan. 6 insurrection, as it appears they plan to do in the Senate, they may have underestimated the revulsion of the majority of Americans over these attempts to overturn the election.

Plus, once the trials and hearings get underway, it could well be that some of the true believers will lose interest in belonging to a party of liars, losers, and lunatics.

Could happen.
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Old 02-01-2021, 01:12 PM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 11 days ago)
 
35,637 posts, read 17,989,189 times
Reputation: 50679
Trump's new legal team has convinced Trump to take the defense that's most likely to win - to claim that impeaching an official who is no longer in office is unconstitutional.

They're apparently not even going to attempt to prove that Trump didn't, in fact, incite an insurrection. And they refuse to mention in court that the election was fraudulent and stolen from him.

They likely have a very good shot at winning with this defense position. They weren't going to win saying Trump didn't incite the mob to violence, and no one wants to hear another stupid word about a stolen fraudulent election.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/31/polit...ers/index.html

Here's an interesting discussion of whether an official is impeachable after leaving office. At the end of the article, Belkamp was in fact found to have stood trial after being impeached, although by the time the trial began he had already resigned and no longer held office.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/...-leaves-office

Additionally, the constitution allows for two remedies if an official is impeached and convicted.

1. Removal from office and/or

2. A declaration that he may never hold an official position again.

Punishment number 1 is out, but #2 seems well in play.

Last edited by ClaraC; 02-01-2021 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 02-01-2021, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,201 posts, read 19,224,183 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Trump's new legal team has convinced Trump to take the defense that's most likely to win - to claim that impeaching an official who is no longer in office is unconstitutional.

They're apparently not even going to attempt to prove that Trump didn't, in fact, incite an insurrection. And they refuse to mention in court that the election was fraudulent and stolen from him.

They likely have a very good shot at winning with this defense position. They weren't going to win saying Trump didn't incite the mob to violence, and no one wants to hear another stupid word about a stolen fraudulent election.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/31/polit...ers/index.html

Here's an interesting discussion of whether an official is impeachable after leaving office. At the end of the article, Belkamp was in fact found to have stood trial after being impeached, although by the time the trial began he had already resigned and no longer held office.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/...-leaves-office

Additionally, the constitution allows for two remedies if an official is impeached and convicted.

1. Removal from office and/or

2. A declaration that he may never hold an official position again.

Punishment number 1 is out, but #2 seems well in play.
They are likely going to win, not because they have a stronger Constitutional argument, but because impeachment is a political process, not a legal one.

Republicans will vote on party lines, no matter how reprehensible they may have found Trump's behavior, and many have indicated they do in fact consider it reprehensible. But unless McConnell makes a political calculation that it's better for himself and other Republican politicians for Trump to be convicted and barred from ever holding Federal office again, the vast majority, of not every GOP Senator, will not vote to convict.

I'm not saying Democrats won't also be voting on party lines, but I think the difference is that they genuinely consider Trump's actions to constitute insurrection and that it deserves to be punished within the process they have at their disposal. Theirs were some of the lives put at risk, after all.
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