Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-15-2021, 04:50 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,531,165 times
Reputation: 12311

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
So one can't say anything at all even true that isn't flattering and complimentary about black or non-white persons? But everyone is free to say false and negative things about whites as they please? There's you're real institutionalized racism.
That doesn’t bode well for when Harris becomes president. Even the slightest criticism of a policy she supports will have the leftists screaming racism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-15-2021, 04:58 AM
 
59,344 posts, read 27,515,340 times
Reputation: 14351
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueMom View Post
I agree with what you are saying here.

Even if her true motive was genuine concern and frustration over the performance of the Black students, and her desire to see an improvement in those outcomes, she did not frame it well at all.

Again, it goes with my earlier post that throughout my life I have seen that often people with a lot of intellect, sometimes just don't have basic common sense skills to go with it.

In our current climate, she could have chosen a more empathetic, better thought out way to express the same exact thing, in a more professional arena as you said, and she probably would have been alright.
The hypocrite left fired her for using her 1st Amendment rights but NEVER stop a liberal from stating their positions.

Liberal speakers are welcomed with open arms to speak whatever liberal junk they want but, a conservative gets protestors and the college rescinds the invitation the few times a conservative is asked to speak there.

A public grade school had the kids singing praise songs about obama and NEVER a repub president.

Kids were forced to watch algore's movie on Global Warming, etc.,etc.,etc.! I'm still waiting for "Miami will be underwater in 10 years." And how long has it been since he claimed it?

" in our current climate", most public school teachers and school administrators liberal? Nah!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2021, 05:09 AM
 
59,344 posts, read 27,515,340 times
Reputation: 14351
Quote:
Originally Posted by grad_student200 View Post
It's a sensitive situation. There was a rigorous debate about it at Harvard by Richard Sander. He has done extensive research on the "mismatch" theory - an argument against using racial preferences in affirmative action. As a minority (indigenous from a reservation), I have often observed other minority students dropout of rigorous STEM programs with low grades. These are generally the students who got in with affirmative action. For example, let's say the average ACT in an engineering class was 28. And the average engineering student had one year of AP calculus, AP physics, AP English, and AP chemistry with some advanced credit earned. By contrast, a minority from a rural area or impoverished school district of an inner city likely did not have any AP courses and only had a score of 22 on the ACT. This is the "mismatch" - the impoverished, socioeconomically oppressed conditions of the school district led to a formula for dropout of STEM - no AP programs and a low ACT score. Let's label these minority students category A.

By contrast, I also observed minorities who were not socioeconomically oppressed and lived in an affluent area with very good school districts. These are the minorities who do come in with good ACT scores and have multiple AP courses in HS. Hence, these minorities would likely still get admitted without affirmative action. In terms of proportion, the sample size per class is generally small. But they are there. For the sake of continuing the discussion, let's label these minority students category B. So, proportion(A) > proportion(B) for the freshman year in STEM but by the senior year it flips - proportion(B)>proportion(A).

So, affirmative action does three things - (1) it puts minority students from category A into a mismatch with low chance of surviving a rigorous STEM program or professional program like a JD or MD. (2) Affirmative action stigmatizes the minority students who do well from category B. As I said, these students most likely would have still gotten in without affirmative action. But they are perceived as "not merit based" for admission even though that is not true. Third, the policy often creates resentment among white and Asian students. Claims of reverse racism are very common. One of the nicest, non-racist medical students I met was a white guy named Chuck. But even he complained that he felt like he had to get unnecessarily high MCAT scores to even get considered for admission. So, the policy is a mess.

The Georgetown professor appeared to be talking about the two categories of African American students from A (unprepared) and B (prepared and could be admitted without affirmative action). The solution is simple - cancel affirmative action and the bulk of minorities will come in from category B. This means there won't be as many minorities on campus but their success rates in rigorous programs will be much higher. Meanwhile, the white and Asian students will feel admission is more merit-based and stop protesting against Affirmative Action. In general, the student body is more inclusive without the tension and social stigamization. Florida outlawed affirmative action in 2000, and the minority students I saw there were mostly from category B - they had good standardized test scores and AP courses comparable with the rest of the class. Hence, sucess rates are high. It was great to witness it. I loved doing well on a campus where affirmative action was outlawed. I know how it feels to get the highest score on a midterm in FL which outlawed the policy in 2000. That type of academic victory is like Custer losing at the Little Bighorn - lol.

By contrast, it appears that Georgetown still has affirmative action and admits unprepared minority students who dropout or perform poorly from category A. But if they remove affirmative action, the superachieving minority students from category B can still get admitted and do well because they have comparable LSAT scores and preparation courses dating back to HS.

My opinion is that the professor was simply observing the two categories above - the unprepared minorities who struggle and got admitted with affirmative action. But there are star minority students who don't need affirmative action. She noted they exist too.

I saw a lot of minority students dropout of STEM when I was an undergraduate. It was heartbreaking to see them go back to the reservation, inner cities, or rural communities without a degree. In hindsight, they should have (1) gone to a community college first to make up for a lousy HS curriculum, (2) transfer to an in-state university if they do well, then (3) go to an elite program for graduate school or law/MD only after they carefully completed the undergraduate degree with high grades and scores.

The mismatch theory is real. I saw it in action badly. I've seen the resentment it creates among white students too. They are usually accused of being racist. But to me, a lot of them are simply complaining about the policy. In those cases, they just want a merit-based approach.

Realistically, there are racist students who genuinely believe minorities are intellectually inferior and can only get admitted with affirmative action. The roots of the policy go back to President Nixon who did indeed harbor such racist beliefs. Ostensibly, he promoted racial preferences and affirmative action in the Philadelphia Project to help minorities. But he was actually using affirmative action as a form of social control to stop the anti-racism riots of the 1960s during the Civil Rights Movement. Ironically, many minorities unquestionably cling to the AA policy without knowing its true intensions - covert social control rooted in racism from Nixon's time decades ago. Why should minorities hold on to a flawed policy created by a bigoted white man born in the early 1900s when society was blatantly segregated with lychings commonplace?
" the impoverished, socioeconomically oppressed conditions of the school district led to a formula for dropout of STEM - no AP programs and a low ACT score. Let's label these minority students category A."

And the teaches, principals, school administrators, the city councilmen, the mayor are MOSTLY BLACK. But, it is the white mans fault!

"I also observed" your bio say you are an engineer so, where and how did you "observe" all of this?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2021, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
6,933 posts, read 2,399,920 times
Reputation: 5004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueMom View Post
I agree with what you are saying here.

Even if her true motive was genuine concern and frustration over the performance of the Black students, and her desire to see an improvement in those outcomes, she did not frame it well at all.

Again, it goes with my earlier post that throughout my life I have seen that often people with a lot of intellect, sometimes just don't have basic common sense skills to go with it.

In our current climate, she could have chosen a more empathetic, better thought out way to express the same exact thing, in a more professional arena as you said, and she probably would have been alright.
So, walking on eggshells and twisting the truth is common sense?

How rogue of you.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2021, 05:14 AM
 
59,344 posts, read 27,515,340 times
Reputation: 14351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
That doesn’t bode well for when Harris becomes president. Even the slightest criticism of a policy she supports will have the leftists screaming racism.
As the left did anytime a white person DARE criticize obama for one of his policies!

Black dems constantly criticized Trump and have been criticizing WHITE politicians for DECADES, I don 't recall ANY Of them EVERY BEING CALLED RACISTS.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2021, 05:17 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,531,165 times
Reputation: 12311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
As the left did anytime a white person DARE criticize obama for one of his policies!

Black dems constantly criticized Trump and have been criticizing WHITE politicians for DECADES, I don 't recall ANY Of them EVERY BEING CALLED RACISTS.
True. I objected to Obamacare back in 2010, when I realized it couldn’t work, and the response came back “why? Because a black man came up with it?”

In fact, I’m wondering part if the reason that the anti-American Marxists picked a black female to be president (when the voters rejected her in the primaries) is because it would be easier to silence criticism of her destructive policies by screaming racism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2021, 05:19 AM
 
59,344 posts, read 27,515,340 times
Reputation: 14351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
Well, there's something called professionalism, and some seem to be missing the point as per usual. I'm no fan of 'woke' culture either, but that doesn't mean every single situation in life is cookie cutter and the same.

The professor may have been pointing out what is 'factual' in her own classes and experience, but that doesn't mean she had to in the first place. When I looked at the video, the way she spoke it's almost like you could see her rolling her eyes and sighing, with exaggerated motions and laughing at spots. Almost like it's mocking the students. I'm not saying that was her intention, but first impressions are everything.

If she wanted to have a serious discussion about why Black students are doing so poorly in her classes, that's something that needed to be handled in a professional roundtable with administration and others. Some people just cannot seem to grasp when to keep their mouths shut and when to keep things professional and respectful towards all people.
You post a negative piece, which is available to EVERYONE in the public arena and you can under the 1st Amendment but, but that doesn't mean you had to in the first place.

Using YOUR criteria, YOUR post should be deleted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2021, 08:29 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,683 posts, read 28,786,696 times
Reputation: 25269
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
So one can't say anything at all even true that isn't flattering and complimentary about black or non-white persons?
Oh, you can absolutely say whatever you want. Free speech and all that. Just don't expect to keep your job or find gainful employment for the rest of your life.

There is that little tidbit, of course.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2021, 08:37 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,500 posts, read 15,306,609 times
Reputation: 14369
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Oh, you can absolutely say whatever you want. Free speech and all that. Just don't expect to keep your job or find gainful employment for the rest of your life.

There is that little tidbit, of course.
You would have a case if your job is a government job.

You might have a case if your place of employment is the recipient of government funds, like most universities, including Georgetown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2021, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
33,595 posts, read 18,225,315 times
Reputation: 15570
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/54...black-students

Sounds like the professor was simply concerned and wanted to brainstorm with a colleague about how to help her black students do better. Now she's branded a "reprehensible" racist, her career ruined permanently.
One cannot state the truth today if one mentions blacks in a negative light no matter how truthful one is. This woman seems disappointed that blacks did not test higher . She is frustrated because she cares.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:39 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top