Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The logical fallacy of this thread is the presumed belief that every gun law is a restriction on the 2nd amendment. Current state law requires me to put the 'sportman's plug' in my pump gun (restricting me to three shells) to hunt pheasant. The second amendment is not involved at all.
Poor example.
That's not really a "gun law" per se.
It a restriction on how a particular type of gun can be used for a particular purpose..... hunting pheasant.
I imagine you don't need the plug in the gun if you're not using it to hunt with.
So it's really more a restriction on pheasant hunting than on guns.
Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock used a bump stock to fire rapidly into the crowd, killing 58. Does that sound like a toy, a joke? The issue is these devices are available for any psychopath to buy.
The gov. can ban bump stocks and I wouldn't care less.
Quote:
An issue conveniently being side stepped while never explaining why they are needed.
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is for citizens to have military grade weapons in order to be ready for militia service if their State called them. We've see to forget the point of why there is a 2nd amendment
Quote:
Rate of fire is not dependent on magazine size, only how fast it will empty.
with semi automatics or revolvers it's as fast as you can pull the trigger
Quote:
As far as "needs", I never implied I was arbiter ... I simply asked what civilian needs that kind of firepower? It is a question. I did not get an answer. Only deflection.
I have a Thompson .45 cal 1927 A1 (semi auto) with a 100 round drum two 50 round drums and five 30 round magazines, all bought during the assault weapons ban during the 1990s. Why do I want that fire power? Just because at that time there was a ban and the prices of those magazines already in circulation were going up and I wanted them. It's actually annoying to load and change out the drums. The magazines are easier to handle.
To be honest I could care less if Congress forced gun manufacturers to produce rifles with fixed magazines that only hold say 5 or 10 rounds. That won't stop mass shootings in schools nor will it make it less likely for high casualties. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 people with a couple of 9mm handguns. We need to treat our schools just as government buildings that have high security and armed protection. Hell my marijuana dispensary has two armed guards. We have armed guards for our weed but not for our kids?
No, it is not. SCOTUS in McDonald ruled that he 'needed' a pistol for defense of his home. They just did not consider that he could have used a coach gun, legal in his city at that time.
So we got a ban on new registration of pistols overturned by the court.
Just because the SC rules on something at a given time, with a given makeup of the court doesn't make it constitutional or unconstitutional in the context of the Framer's original intent.
But the way that most people ask the question in the context of wanting to ban this or that type of weapon, is irrelevant.
You try to get that law enacted in other states and see what the NRA would do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96
I imagine you don't need the plug in the gun if you're not using it to hunt with.
It is a hunting rule. Now federal law says that one cannot own a shotgun with a too short barrel (under 18 inches). That doesn't involve the 2nd amendment, does it? Not every gun law does.
Well, if Congress can't, States can. NY just did. Will the SC rule their raising the age to 21 unconstitutional???? As with abortion, it is going to be a myriad of different laws across the Nation.
It already is. States already have different laws that restrict 2nd Amendment Rights to varying degrees, even though they're all unconstitutional ("shall not be infringed").
And you're correct... The same thing will be true of abortion. Abortion isn't an enumerated Constitutional Right and as such per Article I Section 8 and the 10th Amendment of the US Constitution, abortion regulation is the purview of each respective state's legislatures which are elected by each state's people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. - 10th Amendment of the US Constitution
It already is. States already have different laws that restrict 2nd Amendment Rights to varying degrees, even though they're all unconstitutional ("shall not be infringed").
If the states have gun laws which have been allowed to stand by SCOTUS (they do!) then those laws, by definition, are NOT unconstitutional.
The logical fallacy of this thread is the presumed belief that every gun law is a restriction on the 2nd amendment. Current state law requires me to put the 'sportman's plug' in my pump gun (restricting me to three shells) to hunt pheasant.
Q: And what happens if you don't have a "sportsman's plug"? Or you leave it at home when you go out to the field? Or you simply don't want to use one?
A: The state government Fines you. Or forbids you to fire the gun. Or confiscates your gun. Or puts you in jail. Or some other coercive action. In other words, the state govt infringes your right to keep and bear arms. The 2nd amendment is very much involved. Because if the 2nd didn't exist, your state government would be perfectly OK to do such things. But since it does exist, they can't forbid or restrict you from using your gun in any of those circumstances.
It frequently gets comical how many bizarre pretzel shapes gun-rights-haters twist themselves into, to pretend there are exceptions to the 2nd amendment.
You try to get that law enacted in other states and see what the NRA would do.
It is a hunting rule. Now federal law says that one cannot own a shotgun with a too short barrel (under 18 inches). That doesn't involve the 2nd amendment, does it? Not every gun law does.
It does involve the second amendment because in the Miller case SCOTUS deemed that such a weapon was not of "common use" for militia purposes.
Quote:
In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.
Prior to the 14 amendment, the bill of rights were absolute and applied to the Federal government.
True of the 1st amendment ("Congress shall make no law...") before the 14th was ratified.
But not true of the 2nd amendment, which does not contain anything like that phrase, and so was clearly intended to apply to ALL governments within the United States: Federal, State, local etc. This was so from the day it was ratified, to the present day and beyond. The 14th had no effect on it, since it already applied to the State govts as well as the Fed.
The gov. can ban bump stocks and I wouldn't care less.
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is for citizens to have military grade weapons in order to be ready for militia service if their State called them. We've see to forget the point of why there is a 2nd amendment
with semi automatics or revolvers it's as fast as you can pull the trigger
I have a Thompson .45 cal 1927 A1 (semi auto) with a 100 round drum two 50 round drums and five 30 round magazines, all bought during the assault weapons ban during the 1990s. Why do I want that fire power? Just because at that time there was a ban and the prices of those magazines already in circulation were going up and I wanted them. It's actually annoying to load and change out the drums. The magazines are easier to handle.
To be honest I could care less if Congress forced gun manufacturers to produce rifles with fixed magazines that only hold say 5 or 10 rounds. That won't stop mass shootings in schools nor will it make it less likely for high casualties. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 people with a couple of 9mm handguns. We need to treat our schools just as government buildings that have high security and armed protection. Hell my marijuana dispensary has two armed guards. We have armed guards for our weed but not for our kids?
Good job. At least you explained your view without being snide. I conceal carry a 9mm with a 20 round mag and 2 spares or 60 round total and you would never know. Is it necessary? I hope not.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
