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1. No evidence of that. As I noted in another thread, you have the 'but for' test. If Mr. Chauvin had not held his knee to Mr. Floyd's neck for 9 minutes, would Mr. Floyd have died of an overdose? In other words, 'but for' Mr. Chauvin's knee, would Mr. Floyd have died of an overdose during those nine minutes?
2. Mel Gibson has nothing to do with this.
3. No link, and it is a big country.
4. Those that serve on juries develop a rather astonishing sense of 'duty' and to 'see justice done'. They do not like, in my experience, to be 'told what to do'.
I know that some thought that a Trump supporter would be on the jury, and so create a 'hung jury'.
Yet, once a rational person takes the oath, and begins to listen to the arguments, such jury members begin to feel the importance of their role, an importance that literally began with the Magna Charta of 1215 under King John. To listen to both sides, and render judgement.
Some herein do not take 'oaths' seriously. Some herein have argued in the past that a jury must disregard all and simple 'cancel' the state's case. I forget the word, but it was very popular for a while on this forum.
Maxine Waters? I disagree with her statements about the trial. But, I bet that the jurors in this case, if they ignored the Judge's instructions and watched the news, ignored it. Jurors tend to resent any outside inference. THEY were the ones that gave up their life to listen to ALL the evidence. They will not be persuaded by outsiders giving their idiot opinions.
One thing I learned, as a young attorney back in the mid 80s, and doing 'pro bono' criminal cases: every damned criminal thought that ALL people were criminals. "I stole it before someone else did", one of my charges claimed, about stealing a room air-conditioner from a home.
Look at some of the responses herein, and keep that thought in mind.
Re: bold: if I'm not mistaken, the word is 'jury nullification' & that has a sordid history in America when it comes to civil rights.
Agree with most or all of your insights here. Personally, I feel that it's as easy to underestimate the American people here as is it anywhere & elsewhere. Additionally, I have surmised that those that are judging the jurors most harshly here have failed to read the Instructions to the Jurors:
Re: bold: if I'm not mistaken, the word is 'jury nullification' & that has a sordid history in America when it comes to civil rights.
Agree with most or all of your insights here. Personally, I feel that it's as easy to underestimate the American people here as is it anywhere & elsewhere. Additionally, I have surmised that those that are judging the jurors most harshly here have failed to read the Instructions to the Jurors:
It's a right all juries have (recognized by SCOTUS) and should be aware of, but juries can never hear about it in the courtroom, which is the weird thing. It's also explicitly recognized in some state constitutions, including Georgia's. I disagree with its use in most cases, but it has been used in some cases where I would agree with it from seeing the law as unjust. I disagree with the characterization you chose though of saying that its use automatically means one has broken the oath of the juror.
I'll give an example, the fugitive slave laws. Some northern juries used it to nullify those laws as they saw the state, even if they had proven their case, as so unjustly burdening the defendant by the law, that they felt the need to use their power to correct it. In taking that action they felt they were rendering justice to the defendant directly, instead of to the case or the court.
It's a right all juries have (recognized by SCOTUS) and should be aware of, but juries can never hear about it in the courtroom, which is the weird thing. It's also explicitly recognized in some state constitutions, including Georgia's. I disagree with its use in most cases, but it has been used in some cases where I would agree with it from seeing the law as unjust. I disagree with the characterization you chose though of saying that its use automatically means one has broken the oath of the juror.
I'll give an example, the fugitive slave laws. Some northern juries used it to nullify those laws as they saw the state, even if they had proven their case, as so unjustly burdening the defendant by the law, that they felt the need to use their power to correct it. In taking that action they felt they were rendering justice to the defendant directly, instead of to the case or the court.
Another example is the trial for the men who killed Emmett Till.
In court yes, why were the bodycam videos not released to the public at all? Why weren't they released the week of May 25, 2020?
We're seeing the latest police shooting in Columbus OH same time as the incident happened for example.
The Floyd cops' bodycam videos were withheld from the public for some reason...now what could that reason be? We watched the bystander video filming Chauvin 24/7 non-stop....no cop bodycam video.
There is no reason because your assertion is simply untrue.
Quote:
Jurors were shown three body-worn camera videos back-to-back Wednesday afternoon.
Jurors first watched the footage from former Minneapolis officer Thomas Lane. Lane was the first officer to speak with George Floyd and as he approached either he or former Minneapolis police officer J. Alexander Kueng is heard on the video saying "they are moving around a lot."
Lane taps on the window with the end of flashlight, appearing to startle Floyd.
"Oh," Floyd says and opens the door slightly. "I’m sorry. I'm sorry."
"Get your f------ hands up right now," Lane is heard saying and pulling out his service weapon and pointing it at Floyd.
Floyd appears to begin crying and apologizing to the office repeatedly saying "please don't shoot me."
While Lane is on the driver side, Kueng speaks with a male passenger before rushing over to the driver side to assist Lane.
The two officers eventually get Floyd out of the vehicle and he is briefly sat on the sidewalk before the pair lead him over to the squad car waiting in front of Cup Foods.
A portion of former Minneapolis police officer Tou Thao's video was shown. In it, he appears to be in charge of the growing number of bystanders. Juries saw the opposite angle from bystander videos multiple times over the previous days of testimonies.
there you go again with the videos in court only...why wasn't the public allowed to see these bodycam videos prior to the trial?
Why Minneapolis Mayor Man-Child and Gov Walz for example not release these videos when this happened in May 2020 or even shortly thereafter?
You keep going avoiding an answer...there is no answer because you can't assert let alone provide an answer.
btw, I'm not ''asserting'' anything, I'm asking why the bodycam video was not released for the public to see outside of the trial?
So bodycam video is from 5/25/20 and no one could see it until 3/31/21...in the interim, the whole world only saw the bystander Chauvin knee on ''neck''...which turned out to be at trial the pressure on the shoulder blade/upper back area.
Perhaps you were expecting a text message or personal e-mail?
Body Cam Footage of George Floyd’s Arrest Has Been Released
AUG. 4, 2020
Quote:
On Monday night, the Daily Mail published an eight-minute video of the arrest of George Floyd, obtained from the body cameras of officers Thomas Lane and Alex Kueng, who stood by as officer Derek Chauvin killed Floyd.
Based on what? The language in the 2nd degree unintentional murder that I quoted from the MN law earlier in the thread seemed to fit what happened pretty well, IMO.
I know someone who got into a fight with a guy and beat him up so badly that the guy ended up dying. I feel like "in the old days" this would have been considered manslaughter. But with the the felony-murder rule, wouldn't it now be second-degree unintentional murder?
I'm not a legal expert on Minnesota law. Their laws could define murder as anything. My point was that the layman's traditional understanding of murder is that it requires some kind of intent to kill, or at least a reasonable expectation that what you're doing could kill. This felony murder rule seems to elevate many things which aren't intuitively murder, to murder.
The manslaughter charge was for "culpable negligence". Which is "recklessly acting without reasonable caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death (or failing to do something with the same consequences)."
That seemed to me to be the most appropriate charge. Second-degree murder just feels excessive. Unless you're Maxine Waters who claimed it should actually be first-degree murder.
And let's pretend in some hypothetical world they did convict him of first-degree murder. Half of America would be happy with the verdict and spend days trying to justify it. They're not actually concerned about the law, they just want Chauvin to go to prison and never come out.
You are a reasonable person so directing my question to you. I think our Justice Systems make it difficult to find a defendant guilty. I also think it should be difficult. I also think a defendant should be able to appeal a conviction.
I think it's very likely Derek Chauvin will attempt to overturn the verdict on appeal. How likely is it that he will be granted a new trial?
Some folks are questioning Judge Cahill's decisions from allowing cameras in the courtroom, to sequestering the jury, what are your opinions here?
Some folks seem conflicted i.e. the public should have all of the evidence from day 1 a year ago, & yet, the jurors should not have been able to have that same evidence. How would that work?
He was on the ground with his hands handcuffed behind him. How could he get up?
Don't you know? Big black guys are powerful monsters. Unless you deny them oxygen for 8 or 9 minutes they can break steel bonds and overpower a handful of white dudes. The only other way to stop them is to shoot them in the back several times. Their armor plated skin isn't as strong there.
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