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It was obvious that she didn't "take the knife away" from anyone and that she was clearly the aggressor about to stab the girl in pink.
Sorry but I do not share your magical insight. I have no idea what happened with the group prior to the start of the video.
And I would point out you need to understand that. The dead lady's home keeper has stated that the dead lady was attacked and called the police. That is going to make it very difficult to make her the aggressor.
So it may be anything from a good shoot to the terrible side of killing the victim of a crime.
I expect we will have some view over the next weeks. But right now I would not bet on anything. The screwy quotient is just too high.
Sorry but I do not share your magical insight. I have no idea what happened with the group prior to the start of the video.
And I would point out you need to understand that. The dead lady's home keeper has stated that the dead lady was attacked and called the police. That is going to make it very difficult to make her the aggressor.
So it may be anything from a good shoot to the terrible side of killing the victim of a crime.
I expect we will have some view over the next weeks. But right now I would not bet on anything. The screwy quotient is just too high.
True, what happened before the video, where the knife came from, who was the initial aggressor are unclear. That doesn't change the facts that when the cop arrived, knife wielder had the knife, had stabbed one girl and was in stabbing mode with the other girl. At that point dead girl wasn't acting in self-defense.
It is much worse than that. The claim now is that the dead gal was the one who called 911 and claimed she was being attacked. That of course would lead to a view the knife was the lady protecting herself.
So the officer killed the original victim for defending herself.
The officer is still likely in the clear as the original victim is the later aggressor and was properly stopped.
Would appear though that something like a Taser or even a baton would have been better.
The officer sorted too quickly and may have gotten it wrong. Still got a dead teenager though.
It does not matter if she made the call. If she was the victim and had taken the knife away from one of the other girls the logical thing to do would be to say to the officer that she was glad he was there and give him the knife.
The girl in pink (hereafter called Pink) has said Ma'Khia was coming after her with the knife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
Your point is silly. This is a few yards range. The taser would be more than accurate enough for that. And then we would have no one dead. That is a very big trade off. Resorting to lethal force may well have killed someone guilty only of defending themself.
And you hold that the police should kill anyone using a legal weapon to defend themselves if the perpetrator is threatened? That will put a very different slant on the 2nd and the right to defend ones self.
Taser is not reliable enough when the knife is inches from Pink's head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
Again not true. There is at least a side story that she was the original victim and was simply defending herself.
So your view is anytime the police come across a guy pointing a gun at another he should be immediately killed. Not going to do much for the 2nd and the right to self defense. Note that a gun pointed is only milliseconds from dispensing death and much more likely to be lethal than a knife.
You can guarantee that a Taser would prevent Ma'Khia from delivering a fatal slash or stab to Pink?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
If you have absolute knowledge of the roles of the players so you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, who is the bad guy it may well be good to shoot. But if you do not have that knowledge you run the risk of committing a felony if you kill the victim. As may well be alleged here.
Kindly describe how you determine when a knife is being used to attack versus being used to defend ones self from an attack? You really think there is a LED indicating attack/defense?
The weapons and actions of the lady in pink are not shown in the video. And mostly they would have happened well before the officer arrived on the scene. It is going to be hard for the officer if it turns out the dead lady was the one who called 911. If not the earlier goings on may still be an issue.
Pink was off to the side and holding a dog when Ma'Khia attacked the girl on the ground first. Is a small lap dog a weapon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
And if I took a knife from a guy trying to steal my phone I do not want the officer to shoot me.
If you do not want to get shot you drop the knife and raise your hands to show they are empty. You do not pull the hand containing the knife back and bring it forward toward the guy in a stabbing/slashing motion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913
Doesn't seem like she knew the cop was there. I don't believe she was facing the squad car. And even then, she was in the middle of the fight, so she likely wasn't paying attention. The cop should have made it known he was on the scene. Which is why I'm against the idea of him just showing up and opening fire immediately.
The officer was yelling Stop from the time he got out of his patrol car. He did not open fire immediately. He pulled Ma'Khia off the girl on the ground. She escaped, whirled around, and attacked Pink.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
Sorry but I do not share your magical insight. I have no idea what happened with the group prior to the start of the video.
And I would point out you need to understand that. The dead lady's home keeper has stated that the dead lady was attacked and called the police. That is going to make it very difficult to make her the aggressor.
So it may be anything from a good shoot to the terrible side of killing the victim of a crime.
I expect we will have some view over the next weeks. But right now I would not bet on anything. The screwy quotient is just too high.
I cannot find anywhere that confirms that Ma'Khia made the 911 call. The "dead lady's home keeper" was not there when the incident happened.
It started with an argument over cleaning the house, which the other two girls complained to Ma'Khia about. The argument moved from inside the house to the front lawn, according to a neighbor.
There is absolutely no evidence that Ma'Khia was not the aggressor. She was larger and heavier than Pink and had her pinned against the car. Pink was trying to escape.
Sorry but I do not share your magical insight. I have no idea what happened with the group prior to the start of the video.
And I would point out you need to understand that. The dead lady's home keeper has stated that the dead lady was attacked and called the police. That is going to make it very difficult to make her the aggressor.
So it may be anything from a good shoot to the terrible side of killing the victim of a crime.
I expect we will have some view over the next weeks. But right now I would not bet on anything. The screwy quotient is just too high.
Did you even watch the entire thing?
There is no way on Earth anyone would approach that situation and not see that girl was trying to kill the other one. That other one would have been dead if not for the cop.
Your logic is for any and all deadly force events happening, cops msut not do anything until they conduct a full investigation. So that person can continue shooting up a mall because who knows, maybe he was just defending himself. Hell, maybe he even took a break from defending himself and called 911, lol.
Only in an irrational clown world can anyone think this was anything other than a justified shooting.
Law enforcement is a far more reasonable application than self driving cars. I explained how self driving cars have challenges because the dynamics associated with terrains and diverse roads. And how it requires expertise in a few fields to get right. Should as Geospatial analysis and machine learning.
Again, a police drone, or police robot is usually dealing with situations where there are less dynamics at play. So accurate assessments and more effective decision making can be done.
Self driving cars and automation of law enforcement is really a false equivalence. Particularly from a technology standpoint.
And I believe automation is suited for just about everything.
Policing is potentially an even more complex situation than driving.
Especially in intense and dangerous situations.
And automatons/drones are only as good as the people who program and operate them.
I don't see that he acted incorrectly, easy for us to watch a video and claim he was wrong. There should be some things we agree on when it comes to LE. Every violent action is not bad, many are necessary.
Sorry but I do not share your magical insight. I have no idea what happened with the group prior to the start of the video.
And I would point out you need to understand that. The dead lady's home keeper has stated that the dead lady was attacked and called the police. That is going to make it very difficult to make her the aggressor.
So it may be anything from a good shoot to the terrible side of killing the victim of a crime.
I expect we will have some view over the next weeks. But right now I would not bet on anything. The screwy quotient is just too high.
What happened prior to the cops arrival on the scene is irrelevant.
All the police can do is act they way they are trained in that moment.
He saw the girl about to stab the other one....he stopped her from doing it.
Sorry but I do not share your magical insight. I have no idea what happened with the group prior to the start of the video.
And I would point out you need to understand that. The dead lady's home keeper has stated that the dead lady was attacked and called the police. That is going to make it very difficult to make her the aggressor.
So it may be anything from a good shoot to the terrible side of killing the victim of a crime.
I expect we will have some view over the next weeks. But right now I would not bet on anything. The screwy quotient is just too high.
If you watched the video you'd know better.
There was no physical altercation directly before tubby decided to attempt to murder the girl in pink.
There is no scenario where tubby was the victim. She was armed with a knife and attempting to murder an unarmed girl who wasn't doing anything to her or anyone physically.
There is no scenario where this was anything but a good shoot.
There are 2 videos available, watch both of them. I think you'll learn a lot.
I think the shooting was irresponsible. He risk shooting the other girl too and many more people. He literally fired into an area of crowded people. He should have at least fired a warning shot in the air to get their attention.
I do get it. Mistakes do happen. But these are not trivial mistakes. Lives are lost when these mistakes happen. So even if he made a mistake. There should still be jail time. If a doctor made a mistake and performed some sort of mal practice on your relative. You'd be begging for him/her to serve jail time and have his medical license revoked.
Everyone makes mistakes. But mistakes don't all have the same impact. These mistakes end lives. So yes something should be done. And a slap on the wrist isn't enough. I think he at least 1-3 years in prison.
Doctors aren't realistically facing jail time for medical malpractice. The family will sue and get extensive damages $ in civil court. Exactly as in a medical malpractice situation. I say this as someone who is very in favor of modernizing and reforming policing. With the technology today, we should be able to improve policing in a way that minimizes risk for both the police officer and those they are engaging with. And we need to be looking at police PROCEDURE, as jailing officers that are adhering to procedure (this is not a Chauvin situation) is not going to fix this problem in the long-term.
He could have easily shot the other girl too. That's the issue. And its still a mistake, and he should get time for it.
Was it a mistake or was he adhering to police procedure for this type of situation? My take is that the police department has very detailed standards for when a police officer is allowed to fire their weapon.
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