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That is known as victim blaming and it’s exactly what you have done over and over and over in this thread. You essentially keep saying it’s okay to have sex with someone who doesn’t consent to engaging in that sexual activity provided they don’t specifically state “I do not consent to engaging in (type of sex) with you”.
It’s wrong.
As I said I have not blamed anyone for anything.
Simply stating actions have consequences is not victim blaming.
As it stands having sex with someone of the same sex is not illegal nor is lying to someone to persuade them to have sex with you so I do not see these things in the same light as faceable rape, statutory rape, or having sex with someone who is unable to give consent due to impairment.
I think the only thing we disagree on is the issue of consent.
No I don't want to see not verbally stating your biological sex tried as rape. That does not mean I do not believe there is a moral obligation to do so. Just like I believe there is a moral obligation to disclose the fact that you are married, or not using BC, or have a disease, etc. but I don't think those things should be tried as rape either.
I think biological sex would be the easiest for one to figure out before engaging in sex and I feel everyone has some personal responsibility to determine that before hand.
I really see no problem with the legal code as it stands vaguely listing deception. That way any case can be assessed on an individual basis. I seriously doubt there are many situations where one party has no idea the person they are having sex with is not the same sex.
I think that's just about equally as reasonable of a stance as the stance that says people should be legally punished for failing to disclose their genitalia, if they appear to be the opposite sex of their genitalia.
There are pros and cons to each stance.
If we punish people who fail to disclose their genitalia...we would be changing culture in a manner that surprises people who felt what they were doing wasn't that bad of a thing. There might also be repercussions that result in ALL transgender people, even those who have have enough of the physical characteristics of the sex they don't define themselves as that reasonable people would suspect they might have genitalia of the sex they don't define themselves as, being legally punished each time they don't disclose the existence of that genitalia before something so mild as kissing someone.
I don't think that would be good.
So there are reasons to be concerned about changing the laws.
I agree that I doubt many incidents happen in which people don't have any idea that the person they're having sexual contact with is not the same sex.
So there are perhaps sound practical reasons to hold your views.
That said, I do think your last few comments have involved victim blaming. Regardless of what our laws are, we can still condemn behaviors. We typically do condemn all sorts of behaviors that are perfectly legal, but immoral. I think this should be no different.
As I said I have not blamed anyone for anything.
Simply stating actions have consequences is not victim blaming.
As it stands having sex with someone of the same sex is not illegal nor is lying to someone to persuade them to have sex with you so I do not see these things in the same light as faceable rape, statutory rape, or having sex with someone who is unable to give consent due to impairment.
I think the only thing we disagree on is the issue of consent.
I think you've been victim blaming.
Being raped is not a consequence of going out and getting plastered. It's a consequence of the rapist engaging in that behavior. Going out and getting plastered makes that even more likely...but you've essentially described the drunkenness as the root cause of the problem. That's not the case.
The root cause of the problem is the rapist.
If it's impractical to arrest the rapist, that's one thing, but we need to be emphasizing the crime is wrong, and, similarly, we need to be emphasizing that lying about the existence of one's genitalia, or failing to disclose its existence if one looks like the opposite sex of that genitalia, is wrong, and you have not been doing that. You've been describing things more like, "Screw the victim. It's their own fault for being careless."
Simply stating actions have consequences is not victim blaming.
So if a woman has a few drinks and a man takes advantage of her, then she should have made better choices? Or do the consequences only apply to men who get taken advantage of?
Lying to people about your biological gender distorts and makes wobbly the entire idea of “sexual consent”. If you would NOT have consented to sex had they been honest with you beforehand, it certainly seems that a breach of consent has occurred.
I think you mean biological SEX.
Gender is a proxy term used by trans to deflect the reality that you cannot alter your sex.
WORDS MATTER!
Being raped is not a consequence of going out and getting plastered. It's a consequence of the rapist engaging in that behavior. Going out and getting plastered makes that even more likely...but you've essentially described the drunkenness as the root cause of the problem. That's not the case.
The root cause of the problem is the rapist.
If it's impractical to arrest the rapist, that's one thing, but we need to be emphasizing the crime is wrong, and, similarly, we need to be emphasizing that lying about the existence of one's genitalia, or failing to disclose its existence if one looks like the opposite sex of that genitalia, is wrong, and you have not been doing that. You've been describing things more like, "Screw the victim. It's their own fault for being careless."
I think you are saying everyone is a victim and no one is responsible for their own actions.
I never said rape is a consequence of any action. Prove me wrong.
Where do you even get I said any such thing.
I said its more likely you wake up in the bed of a strange man not remembering what you did if you are drunk and high than if you are sober. That is in no way saying getting drunk is the reason for rape.
For you information all through this tread I have stated it is wrong to be dishonest and I believe one has a moral obligation to inform a potential sex partner of their biological sex.
I'm tired of you twisting my words and putting words in my mouth and ignoring what I have actually said.
Go back and actually read what I wrote.
As I said I have not blamed anyone for anything.
Simply stating actions have consequences is not victim blaming.
As it stands having sex with someone of the same sex is not illegal nor is lying to someone to persuade them to have sex with you so I do not see these things in the same light as faceable rape, statutory rape, or having sex with someone who is unable to give consent due to impairment.
I think the only thing we disagree on is the issue of consent.
They are unable to give consent due to deception - which is considered part of the definition of rape. Don’t start up on the married, criminal, income lying again, please. Those are relationship deceptions, not type of sexual activity deceptions.
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I think you are saying everyone is a victim and no one is responsible for their own actions.
I never said rape is a consequence of any action. Prove me wrong.
Where do you even get I said any such thing.
I said its more likely you wake up in the bed of a strange man not remembering what you did if you are drunk and high than if you are sober. That is in no way saying getting drunk is the reason for rape.
For you information all through this tread I have stated it is wrong to be dishonest and I believe one has a moral obligation to inform a potential sex partner of their biological sex.
I'm tired of you twisting my words and putting words in my mouth and ignoring what I have actually said.
Go back and actually read what I wrote.
Why do you think it isn't necessary for a transgender to tell a heterosexual that they are about to engage in homosexual activity?
They are unable to give consent due to deception - which is considered part of the definition of rape. Don’t start up on the married, criminal, income lying again, please. Those are relationship deceptions, not type of sexual activity deceptions.
So you going to site the criminal code that states not informing your partner of your biological gender equates to inability to give consent? Because having looked at some state codes and actual cases I have not found it to be so.
As far as not bringing up marital status and income, why not. Most of the cases of rape by deceit I have read are related to marital status or income rather than biological sex.
You state that one is unable to give consent due to deception of biological sex as though it is actually held as a truth when actually it is only your opinion. I am arguing the law, not your opinion. I can not argue that only disagree.
So you going to site the criminal code that states not informing your partner of your biological gender equates to inability to give consent? Because having looked at some state codes and actual cases I have not found it to be so.
As far as not bringing up marital status and income, why not. Most of the cases of rape by deceit I have read are related to marital status or income rather than biological sex.
You state that one is unable to give consent due to deception of biological sex as though it is actually held as a truth when actually it is only your opinion. I am arguing the law, not your opinion. I can not argue that only disagree.
It is not specifically against the law in the US, but it should be.
Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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