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The issue is IDs cost money. Voting is a constitutional right. Mandating voter IDs without them being 100% paid for by government means you're making people pay to vote. If people really cared about voter IDs, they would be more than willing for the total cost to the voter to be $0. That said, there's no evidence that people are voting under other names, or that non-citizens are voting. Couple that with the fact that voter ID laws ask people to pay out of pocket for ID, we're left with the fact that mandating ID to vote doesn't solve anything, and actually prevents US citizens from voting.
Hang on, I thought it has been established that ID's are required for most things. In fact, where in the world does a citizen not have an ID?
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
You need a photo ID in Texas to do the following:
-buy alcohol
-buy cigarettes
-to get a job, get on payroll
-to get some pharmacy prescriptions
-to get social security services
-to rent an apartment
-to buy a house with mortgage
-to fly commercial
-to fly a private charter
-to get in the capitol building
-to open a bank account
-to run for office
-to drive a car
and more,
So voters have already got their ID's. Where's the problem?
How can anyone say there is no evidence of people voting under other names, or that non-citizens are voting? One would need voter ID to determine that. If there is no voter ID then one can say there is no evidence that these things are not happening.
And just the fact that certain parties are hell bent on denying voter ID's looks very suspicious. Like maybe they intend to cheat. Which makes it look like they've cheated before. And don't forget, they are the ones who claimed the election was stolen on the previous election when they lost. Just saying.
I was asking you a question. I don't live in NC. Can you point me to an article that explains that law in NC?
Can you also show me the proof you're referencing that voter fraud due to lack of photo ID is a problem?
I can see that significant voter fraud could be difficult at polling stations even without voter ID. But, postal votes are open. That's where one needs to be looking.
You need an ID to buy a gun, possessing a firearm is a constitutional right. So are you against people showing an ID to buy a gun?
No, the second amendment is not nearly as clear cut as the right to vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy
I can see that significant voter fraud could be difficult at polling stations even without voter ID. But, postal votes are open. That's where one needs to be looking.
Fair enough. Here's my problem. Every time a voter ID law comes up, no one can point to actual fraud that we are preventing. It's a solution looking for a problem, and it's a solution that will prevent some legal citizens from voting. If there isn't actually fraud, what are we doing?
No, the second amendment is not nearly as clear cut as the right to vote.
I think it's clear enough to be comparable. But either way, the ID requirement is for background check purposes (mainly) which is to keep legal guns out of felons hands. And crazy people.
Quote:
Fair enough. Here's my problem. Every time a voter ID law comes up, no one can point to actual fraud that we are preventing. It's a solution looking for a problem, and it's a solution that will prevent some legal citizens from voting. If there isn't actually fraud, what are we doing?
Well, the thing is, one doesn't know whether there is an actual fraud. That in itself is a problem. But, there have been vocal protests and accusations of voter fraud. That by both the Dem's and the Repubs.
There's no way a first world nation should be seen having voter fraud accusations and doubt. Especially when that first world nation is the leader of the free world.
Let's go back a few months. A presidential election and one party pushes for mass postal votes using covid as an excuse. That same party has been attacking the standing president from the get go, mostly with lies and propaganda. They hate the standing president and their mainstream press runs a continuous smear campaign against said president, trumping up all kinds of charges against him.
Then they win the election and everyone thinks they cheated through the postal vote system. They have motive and means and apparently, they had the will too.
So did they cheat? Well, seriously, it sure looks like it! But did they really? We have no way of knowing.
Now, enter proper first world voter registration and ID's and that problem goes away.
You know, when I changed my address, I got a notice from the voter registry office informing me which voter ward I now fall under and asked me to confirm my voter new registration details. I never told them a thing about moving.
You see, I am a tax payer. They know exactly where I live. I also have a drivers license and motor vehicle registrations. Also, graveyards are not registered addresses.
The last time I voted, they sent me a form giving me a quick access code and telling me where to go to vote. I went there (without my form but no problem), gave them my name and my date of birth, they found me on the register and asked for my ID and then marked me off, gave me my ballot form and I voted. Done. Nobody could possibly use my name to fraudulently vote. My ID is my drivers license. Other forms of ID is acceptable.
If a tiny backwater country like New Zealand can do it, then surely the worlds greatest nation can do it too. And every one gets to vote (if they are between 18 and still alive).
I think it's clear enough to be comparable. But either way, the ID requirement is for background check purposes (mainly) which is to keep legal guns out of felons hands. And crazy people.
Well, the thing is, one doesn't know whether there is an actual fraud. That in itself is a problem. But, there have been vocal protests and accusations of voter fraud. That by both the Dem's and the Repubs.
There's no way a first world nation should be seen having voter fraud accusations and doubt. Especially when that first world nation is the leader of the free world.
Let's go back a few months. A presidential election and one party pushes for mass postal votes using covid as an excuse. That same party has been attacking the standing president from the get go, mostly with lies and propaganda. They hate the standing president and their mainstream press runs a continuous smear campaign against said president, trumping up all kinds of charges against him.
Then they win the election and everyone thinks they cheated through the postal vote system. They have motive and means and apparently, they had the will too.
So did they cheat? Well, seriously, it sure looks like it! But did they really? We have no way of knowing.
Now, enter proper first world voter registration and ID's and that problem goes away.
You know, when I changed my address, I got a notice from the voter registry office informing me which voter ward I now fall under and asked me to confirm my voter new registration details. I never told them a thing about moving.
You see, I am a tax payer. They know exactly where I live. I also have a drivers license and motor vehicle registrations. Also, graveyards are not registered addresses.
The last time I voted, they sent me a form giving me a quick access code and telling me where to go to vote. I went there (without my form but no problem), gave them my name and my date of birth, they found me on the register and asked for my ID and then marked me off, gave me my ballot form and I voted. Done. Nobody could possibly use my name to fraudulently vote. My ID is my drivers license. Other forms of ID is acceptable.
If a tiny backwater country like New Zealand can do it, then surely the worlds greatest nation can do it too. And every one gets to vote (if they are between 18 and still alive).
Sorry, but what fraud? This country has been voting by mail since the Civil War. If you think there was fraud in the 2020 election, show proof. It has been counted, recounted, audited and scrutinized more than any election in history. There was no fraud.
I agree though that a country like ours shouldn't have doubts over fraud. We only had them because Trump knew he would lose, so he spread lies about voter fraud months before the election. He made up the lie, and it has been proven beyond doubt there simply was no fraud. So, we know voter ID laws will keep legal citizens from voting, and we know there is no fraud with voting by mail. If I am wrong show ANY proof of fraud.
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