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Old 09-02-2021, 03:43 PM
 
5,111 posts, read 2,052,447 times
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I saw this interesting article from the Atlantic about Australia's lockdowns and that reminds me a quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin.
Quote:
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ocracy/619940/

Quote:
In a bid to keep the coronavirus out of the country, Australia’s federal and state governments imposed draconian restrictions on its citizens. Prime Minister Scott Morrison knows that the burden is too heavy. “This is not a sustainable way to live in this country,” he recently declared. One prominent civil libertarian summed up the rules by lamenting, “We’ve never seen anything like this in our lifetimes.”

Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies, Australia has become a hermit continent. How long can a country maintain emergency restrictions on its citizens’ lives while still calling itself a liberal democracy?

Australia has been testing the limits.

Before 2020, the idea of Australia all but forbidding its citizens from leaving the country, a restriction associated with Communist regimes, was unthinkable. Today, it is a widely accepted policy. “Australia’s borders are currently closed and international travel from Australia remains strictly controlled to help prevent the spread of COVID-19,” a government website declares. “International travel from Australia is only available if you are exempt or you have been granted an individual exemption.” The rule is enforced despite assurances on another government website, dedicated to setting forth Australia’s human-rights-treaty obligations, that the freedom to leave a country “cannot be made dependent on establishing a purpose or reason for leaving.”
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Old 09-02-2021, 09:58 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,603,511 times
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What our Govt has done is very clever...they have basically duped many people into believing safety/security is more important than freedom/liberty.


Look at it this way...there are very strict laws on citizens owning full automatic firearms...Gee, i wonder why that is...Answer...the govt is FRIGHTENED of citizens owning full automatics, so they make it seem like its a safety/security issue and people gobble it up like the naive subjects they are. LOL
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Old 09-02-2021, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
What our Govt has done is very clever...they have basically duped many people into believing safety/security is more important than freedom/liberty.


Look at it this way...there are very strict laws on citizens owning full automatic firearms...Gee, i wonder why that is...Answer...the govt is FRIGHTENED of citizens owning full automatics, so they make it seem like its a safety/security issue and people gobble it up like the naive subjects they are. LOL
I agree to a certain extent but it’s nuanced.

What I disagree with as it specifically relates to Covid is that all of a sudden, according to the vast majority of Republicans/pro-Trump folks, freedom is being infringed upon at some mythical unbearable level.

March 14th, 2020 = ok, kosher

Match 15th, 2020 = oh no! MuH FrEEdoM!!!

Excuse me? Really?

Just because the thuggery started to specifically impact you and to what you personally perceive as some “line in the sand” on 3/15/20 doesn’t mean millions here and around the globe weren’t taking it where the sun don’t shine at the behest of Sammy.

So spare me the crying, Team Red. You aren’t demanding freedom. You are demanding the slavery as it was conducted on 3/14/20.

That just isn’t going to cut it any longer. We’ve been over this since the Whiskey Rebellion when King George Washington personally led an army to PA under the threat of slaughtering farmers for refusing to pay taxation to the throne.

Folks eventually took it in the blank then and will take it now. Who are we kidding?

Did the people “win” any of these battles? The Whiskey Rebellion, Ruby Ridge, Lincoln’s genocide (along with his federal income tax), Wilson’s Federal Reserve (establishing the most systematically oppressive version of soft slavery the world has ever known), FDR’s New Deal, LBJ’s Great Society, and the Patriot Act are just a few examples of the government taking more and more.

Did us peasants ever make out on these things? Did we ever get our rights back?

Hell to the no.

So “your” government is a fat, bloated glob of continuous rights’ violations and it gets bigger each year. Now you want it to cool its jets after you’ve enabled it over and over again?

Nah, take your medicine.
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Old 09-03-2021, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Various
9,049 posts, read 3,524,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
What our Govt has done is very clever...they have basically duped many people into believing safety/security is more important than freedom/liberty.


Look at it this way...there are very strict laws on citizens owning full automatic firearms...Gee, i wonder why that is...Answer...the govt is FRIGHTENED of citizens owning full automatics, so they make it seem like its a safety/security issue and people gobble it up like the naive subjects they are. LOL
Nah, most people just accept that safety from being massacred by a lunatic is a great freedom. And that has objectively proven to be the case.
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Old 09-03-2021, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,641,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiehoff View Post
Nah, most people just accept that safety from being massacred by a lunatic is a great freedom. And that has objectively proven to be the case.
Really. If gun rights supporters had their way, everybody would be armed to defend themselves against lunatics when they go off on a rampage. But who knows how many innocent people would be killed in the chaos when a lunatic pops up and starts firing?
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Old 09-03-2021, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Various
9,049 posts, read 3,524,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
Really. If gun rights supporters had their way, everybody would be armed to defend themselves against lunatics when they go off on a rampage. But who knows how many innocent people would be killed in the chaos when a lunatic pops up and starts firing?
Yes, it is crazy. But there is no reasoning with such people.

They will be along anytime now. With some incorrect NRA talking points about Australia. The NRA absolutely hates how effective the restrictions here have been.
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Old 09-03-2021, 05:02 AM
 
9,897 posts, read 3,430,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiehoff View Post
Yes, it is crazy. But there is no reasoning with such people.

They will be along anytime now. With some incorrect NRA talking points about Australia. The NRA absolutely hates how effective the restrictions here have been.


You're on your way to China-style social credit system where the police will have access to your social media accounts.

We don't want your kind of effective.
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Old 09-03-2021, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,807 posts, read 9,367,244 times
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Yes, lockdowns DO work -- temporarily. The problem is that when lockdowns end, the virus rears its ugly head again and more people are infected because the virus has NOT been eradicated. So, it would be a cycle of lockdown, open, virus spreads, lockdown again, open, virus spreads again. Or at least that is the way it seems to me.

Now at the beginning of the pandemic, I was more than willing to self-isolate because I had no idea what was going to happen and the idea of not having hospitals "overwhelmed" made a great deal of sense to me -- and once people started more freely moving about, I did not mind wearing masks. But now that we do know a LOT more about COVID than we did 18 months ago, I am very skeptical of everything the "experts" are advising. In my opinion, it is -- at this time -- that COVID is not a threat to the great majority of people, and although it is not the flu, in some ways it is like the flu. in that some people get it, some don't, some get very sick from it, and some even die from it -- but most people survive it just fine.

So, in short, I am not going to break any law (unless vaccines are ever required by the national government or my state, in which case I will refuse); and if masking is required (even though from what I have read, most masks that people wear do not prevent infection from COVID), I am personally not worried about getting or giving COVID, unless I develop symptoms, in which case I will voluntarily isolate myself.
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Old 09-03-2021, 05:19 AM
 
Location: My house
7,367 posts, read 3,533,397 times
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You would think Australians would be more rugged with all the creatures out there that are fatally fatal. But I think most humans want a parent style government. That way, they have the feeling of safety many apparently desire. I wish there were more mandatory mask mandates, a federal curfew of 9 pm, and other safe things to keep us safe. Safe!
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Old 09-03-2021, 07:37 AM
 
5,111 posts, read 2,052,447 times
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One thing is sure, Australia get its share of international mockery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjaA9ArbocU
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