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What neither side seems to "get", is that benefits are of benefit to those who use them, whereas taxes are levied upon everyone who earns. So if I'm a single-person with no children or elderly parents, then I gain nothing from free daycare, education, family-leave and so on. If I die before an age of senescence and decrepitude, I gain little or nothing from Medicare or Social Security.
There are some public goods, of which we all benefit. These include clean air, secure borders, a stable currency, paved roads and so on. But there are many public goods for which the benefits are narrow. A stark example is that of access ramps to public buildings, accommodating wheelchairs. These are of prime importance to handicapped people, but for the able-bodied they not only don't add value, but actually remove it, because the occupy real-estate that could have been used for something else. Does this mean that we should tell the handicapped to go [expletive] themselves? Well, probably not, or at least not entirely. But we do have to be mindful of the cost, borne by all taxpayers, and in this case benefitting only a small minority.
So the essence of the question is, to what extent should we be taxing everybody, for things that only benefit a portion of the population. What is the best tradeoff? Europe, it seems, places the trade-off far towards higher tax and higher benefit. America does less so.
A reasonable and logical assessment without the usual attendant "azz sniffing" type of nonsense.
The point that keeps getting glossed over and needs repeating over and over until it finally sinks in; the word "freedom" being bandied about, also encompasses the "freedom" to not have to worry about being able to afford paying for necessary, life saving healthcare. It is also about you or your employer paying for insurance but, you and your family not getting to use any of it until you also pay huge deductibles, co-pays and perhaps even suffer denials of coverage due to some fine print.
Apparently this is a point they are unaware of, in spite of well over 50% of them admitting to denying themselves and their families the routine pre-emptive doctor's visits due to what it might cost them.
Affordable and universally available healthcare, is a topic Americans should steer clear of when attempting to use it as a measure of superior freedoms or lifestyle.
The two bolded terms are mutually exclusive, particularly in this country, where we have the fattest and unhealthiest population in the world.
And no, I still have no interest in handing over my medical care to the same clowns who were wrong on processed food, high carb vs. high protein/fat, margarine, and serve fast food in school lunch programs.
The two bolded terms are mutually exclusive, particularly in this country, where we have the fattest and unhealthiest population in the world.
And no, I still have no interest in handing over my medical care to the same clowns who were wrong on processed food, high carb vs. high protein/fat, margarine, and serve fast food in school lunch programs.
AND I fully understand why you would not wish your Federal government to handle the entire administration and delivery of medical care to ALL your citizens.
You however, should also understand that in the bulk of countries content with their systems providing either single-payer or universal systems, the Federal governments don't provide that role either.
AND I fully understand why you would not wish your Federal government to handle the entire administration and delivery of medical care to ALL your citizens.
You however, should also understand that in the bulk of countries content with their systems providing either single-payer or universal systems, the Federal governments don't provide that role either.
Yet many people who can afford it come to the US for specialist procedures. And many people feel they pay too much for the standard of care they get.
Yes necessarily. The government can't even get dietary advice right.
My taxes would be anywhere between 33% and 110% higher across the board in Europe. And they don't have the most wasteful, corrupt national government on earth.
"Europe" is a collection of countries, not a single country/economy
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPibbs
Meanwhile the Europeans want to live like us. All over the world Americans are known for being rich.
Looking at consumerism is only making a superficial consideration. Consumerism is the reaction, not the cause.
Humans and animals all adapt to their surroundings. And our surroundings, our land, is vast and productive. No other country has this much usable land.
Early European settlers and our founders already recognized how rich this country was going to be. They saw gold but they didn't know about oil. And yes, we got that too.
"From sea to shining sea" and "purple mountain majesty". Our ancestors knew our strength is in this land of abundance and we can't help but be rich.
When you travel across the US by car or train, it's hours and hours of land as far as the eyes can see. Pick any spot, and easily grow soybeans to feed millions of Chinese.
We are fat and we can't help it. Even animals will gorge themselves, get fat and waste food when there is over abundance of resources. Hyper consumerism is only a reaction.
Excellent points! - It's not clear how one measures, or what's included in the 'economy of Europe. Perhaps the reference is to the EU?
The highest ratios of government debt to GDP at the end of the first quarter of 2021 were recorded in Greece (209.3%), Italy (160.0%), Portugal (137.2%), Cyprus (125.7%), Spain (125.2%), Belgium (118.6%) and France (118.0%), and the lowest in Estonia (18.5%), Bulgaria (25.1%) and Luxembourg (28.1%).
The pandemic has aggravated the problem, with governments taking on ever more debt in their efforts to provide economic relief. The International Monetary Fund estimates that general government debt in the euro area will exceed 98% of gross domestic product by the end of 2021, up from 84% at the end of 2019.
Even Bloomburg acknowledges that the EU is headed for (another) major financial crisis:
"Europe faces a predicament. Even as it struggles to contain the Covid-19 pandemic, it’s setting itself up for another crisis — this one financial. To ensure the viability of the common currency at the heart of the European project, the EU’s leaders will have to cooperate in ways they’ve so far resisted." https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...nancial-crisis
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"Europe" is a collection of countries, not a single country/economy
