Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar
Wrong and by a 100 miles. When the Soviet Union fell in 1991 , We (U.S. and NATO)promised them that We wouldn't push to their borders. NATO started with 16 countries and now is 30 members and getting closer and closer to Russia's borders and arming former Soviet members to the teeth and corrupting them against Russia. See Biden's corruption in Ukraine.
Imagine if China does the same thing on us and arms countries to be against us and builds up their military in Canada and Mexico, how would We react? Can you say WW 3.
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That expansion isn't due to NATO's efforts. All those additional countries all wanted to join the Treaty Alliance.
NATO never promised the Russians that the alliance would not admit new members. All of those new members made their applications on their own as a first step to future membership. They approached NATO, not the other way around.
Some countries that have applied haven't been accepted. Others, like Ukraine, have applied but are still under consideration for acceptance into the alliance.
All NATO agreed to was that the existing alliance of the time would never encroach their borders. There was nothing in the treaty that prohibited future growth of NATO.
Putin does not want to recreate the Soviet Union. But he wants a Neo-Russian empire, comprised of more independent states than those of the old Soviet empire, where each is self-governing but is still subservient to Russian supremacy.
There are legitimate needs Russia has for such an empire, at least in their world view. But Putin's thoughts are those of old Soviet Russia, and throughout the near east of Europe, all the nations that are closest to Western Europe see things entirely differently.
Countries like Poland, the Czech Republic, and the others were all self-governing nations off and on throughout their histories, and they all see themselves now as being so again at last. None want to go back to being Russian buffers, the countries that are ruined first every time there's a war that involves Russia.
Of them all, only Ukraine has the closest ties to Russia historically, and for much of that history, Ukraine was the tail that wagged the big dog. Because it was the Russian bread basket, and because it was also the easiest western gateway into the heartland of Mother Russia.
An independent Ukraine presents a threat to Putin. He cannot depend on normal national relationships and goodwill when it comes to Ukraine, and he needs the security of control to keep Russia's economy from floundering.
So this crisis is all about pressure. Putin is squeezing Ukraine hard from the east, while Ukraine is calling for NATO to come help them out in the west.
Who knows if it will come to war?
100 years ago, it did. And war came to the region once more, 20 years later, bringing even greater disaster with it the second time.
That second war is still within living memory. It's still quite a vivid memory for the leaders in both the east and west, and none of them want a 3rd repeat right now.
Since there are several peaceful ways available that may pacify Putin, I'm as uncertain as the next guy of what's going to happen next.
All I actually know is talk/talk is always less dangerous to world peace as shoot/shoot is.
It's still winter, and as long as Putin is still talking to the west, the natural gas in his critical pipeline is still safely in Russian hands and still keeping the Russian economy afloat.
That says to me that Putin isn't willing to take the risk of open war just yet. Especially when all he has to do is move his massed troops away from the borderlands to de-escalate the tension.
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