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Old 02-22-2022, 02:56 PM
 
46,961 posts, read 25,998,208 times
Reputation: 29449

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The problem is that, because of the actions of the EU and NATO, Ukraine could eventually become a hostile country. And for geographical reasons, Russia can't allow that.
Why should anyone give two hoots about what Russia feels they can and cannot afford? You may have noticed a bit of a recurring trend: Any country that has had - what was it - an "informal union" with Russia is pretty damn eager to not repeat the experience.

FFS, Finland has started airing a desire to join NATO, and after Putin's speech about Russia's glorious history, I can't say I blame them.

I don't get it. Russia has territory and resources and soil, they could give their people a quality of life on par with Norway - and enjoy the same international respect. Instead, they struggle to match the GDP of Italy. But hey, there's a flag to salute and reminiscence about the grand old days of Stalin.
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Old 02-22-2022, 03:02 PM
 
4,385 posts, read 4,238,175 times
Reputation: 5874
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar View Post
No they don't. The majority of Texans speak English and the majority of Latinos wants to be under the U.S. rule not Mexico. It's the reason they are on this side of the border. Try again.


Better example is when Texas and California when independent but when they had to choose, the majority of their residents wanted to be under the U.S. not Mexico. Just because I like Mexican food and I speak Spanish doesn't mean I want to live under Mexico rule.


Russia doesn't want a Vietnam or Afghanistan. They will take the zones that the majority of the people want to be under Russia. The minority that don't want to be under Russia, they can move to the pro-Ukraine zones. How is this our crisis?
How would you define and measure a majority of the people, and who would be responsible for collecting, safeguarding and reporting accurate results? Who would be allowed to vote? Would the soldiers deployed there for the past eight years be counted as citizens and be allowed to vote? Who would bear the expense of moving the minority and where would they go? What about those who couldn't move or didn't want to leave their homes? How would they be treated in the new order? Would these questions even be raised?

I would prefer to restore the territory in Ukraine and Georgia until an independent observer team could set up referenda once the people the those areas had the opportunity for self-determination rather than by a straightforward land grab by a leader who seeks to realize his definition of Russia. The people of the two "breakaway" republics should vote as Ukrainians in a process independent of Russia under the eye of a free press and UN observers. The way it stands now, those territories are Russian because one person decided so. I suspect that many would be uneasy at making their dissent public while the Russian are in charge.

Our own country fought a civil war to successfully prevent states from leaving the union, although in my state, it is still the norm to see Confederate flags in some areas.
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Old 02-22-2022, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Why should anyone give two hoots about what Russia feels they can and cannot afford?
Do you know any American History at all? Do you know what the Monroe Doctrine is?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...tral_home.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
I don't get it. Russia has territory and resources and soil, they could give their people a quality of life on par with Norway - and enjoy the same international respect. Instead, they struggle to match the GDP of Italy. But hey, there's a flag to salute and reminiscence about the grand old days of Stalin.
Did you know that Putin had wanted to join NATO? The problem was that America and the West wanted Russia to be a subordinate, not a partner.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-8cae673790cd/

Even the Soviet Union asked to join NATO. The whole point of NATO is to be anti-Russia. There is no NATO without America.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxhLkwmSu98

Russia doesn't want to be America's ***** like the rest of Europe. Europe may have gotten rich off the back of American capitalism and finance, but they are increasingly a globalist cesspit. I hope Russia allies with China and Iran and overthrows American power. Toppling the Saudi Monarchy, ending the petrodollar, then dismantling the American Empire, and causing the dissolution of the degenerate European Union.
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Old 02-22-2022, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincenze View Post
People look and they compare.
I agree. The question still remains, who all gets to secede? And on what conditions?
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Old 02-22-2022, 03:25 PM
 
4,195 posts, read 1,601,146 times
Reputation: 2183
eastern ukraine are russian people its western ukraine thats not, however the city of kiev has special "meaning" for russia as the birthplace of the Russian empire
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Old 02-22-2022, 03:44 PM
 
2,516 posts, read 1,300,113 times
Reputation: 1673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
I don't get it. Russia has territory and resources and soil, they could give their people a quality of life on par with Norway - and enjoy the same international respect.
I heard Norway has the highest taxes on Earth despite selling oil for billions.
How would you feel if the government took 70% of your salary?
I'm sure parasites love life in Norway.
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Old 02-22-2022, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis44102 View Post
eastern ukraine are russian people its western ukraine thats not
The far Western Ukraine was Poland before 1939. Stalin and Hitler carved up Poland between them, and Stalin never gave Eastern Poland back.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ine_en.svg.png

Instead Stalin just cut off a chunk of Germany and gave it to Poland, then forced all the Germans out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight...s_(1944–1950)
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Old 02-22-2022, 06:23 PM
 
13,460 posts, read 4,292,364 times
Reputation: 5390
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
How would you define and measure a majority of the people, and who would be responsible for collecting, safeguarding and reporting accurate results? Who would be allowed to vote? Would the soldiers deployed there for the past eight years be counted as citizens and be allowed to vote? Who would bear the expense of moving the minority and where would they go? What about those who couldn't move or didn't want to leave their homes? How would they be treated in the new order? Would these questions even be raised?

I would prefer to restore the territory in Ukraine and Georgia until an independent observer team could set up referenda once the people the those areas had the opportunity for self-determination rather than by a straightforward land grab by a leader who seeks to realize his definition of Russia. The people of the two "breakaway" republics should vote as Ukrainians in a process independent of Russia under the eye of a free press and UN observers. The way it stands now, those territories are Russian because one person decided so. I suspect that many would be uneasy at making their dissent public while the Russian are in charge.

Our own country fought a civil war to successfully prevent states from leaving the union, although in my state, it is still the norm to see Confederate flags in some areas.
Well is not going to be the U.S. pumping money and arms to corrupt their system. They should decide this even at going to war like We have. Why is this our business?

Their country is not our country. The U.S. fought an illegal war to prevent a weaker side from leaving the union. Nothing new, this has been going on since the beginning of time. The winners got their independence and the losers were destroyed. If if go by the U.S. rule nobody can leave a Central government without their permission.

This is not 1 person since We don't have a leg to stand on since the U.S. is one foreign policy has violated other sovereign nations and We have violated treaties for decades, go ask the Natives.
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Old 02-22-2022, 06:26 PM
 
13,460 posts, read 4,292,364 times
Reputation: 5390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I agree. The question still remains, who all gets to secede? And on what conditions?
That's between them but We have a conflict of interest and a bad history to put our fat fingers in the scale.
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Old 02-22-2022, 06:36 PM
 
13,460 posts, read 4,292,364 times
Reputation: 5390
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Not surprised at all. Putin has had Trump's nose up his rear end from the beginning. They are birds of a feather. Putin's government is nothing more or less than a criminal syndicate, and Trump has always admired his Mafia buddies like Gotti, he'd love to transform the USA into a Russian style oligarchy. Re-elect Trump and we are done as a world power. He will happily hand over the reins to Vlad.

Another childish post. Putin has made his move under Obama and now Biden. That kills the myth that Trump is working for Putin. Why do people ignore history and write such dumb posts? Tell me one individual right you lost under Trump? Get help for your TDS. You didn't even read his quote in full context. You react what people tell you to react.
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