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How does the U.S. keeps NATO to be taken serious if it ignores their own corner stone of the treaty???? Just supporting an invaded NATO country but no troops????? you argument sounds silly. How do you force out an occupied country without troops? I never seen that but maybe you can explain to NATO members how that works.
QUESTION: Does an attack on a NATO ally require—as a matter of international law—the United States to respond with force?
ANSWER: No. We would never agree to that. As one law of war expert recently explained to me, from a policy perspective, it has been important to convey the impression that we would respond to an armed attack on a NATO ally with military force.
QUESTION: Does an attack on a NATO ally require—as a matter of international law—the United States to respond with force?
ANSWER: No. We would never agree to that. As one law of war expert recently explained to me, from a policy perspective, it has been important to convey the impression that we would respond to an armed attack on a NATO ally with military force.
That is an opinion piece by Charles Stimson at the Heritage foundation which he injects his opinion with the treaty.
An attack is not the same thing as an invasion or occupation, is it? Israel gets attacked on a daily basis but if a lethal military invades and occupies Israel then is a different ballgame isn't it? You have to send troops to the ground. I never heard of forcing out an invading and occupying foreign military with NO troops. Maybe it's a new age warfare and they can fight it by sanctions and boycotts.
Throwing a missile at the desert at the border isn't the same thing in having the Russian military in Israel invading and killing Israel people and occupying the country. So unless the U.S. sends troops, the NATO treaty is meaningless.
Isn't that what you say the purpose of NATO is, to prevent Russia in invading NATO members. Didn't the U.S. signing that treaty forces us to send Americans to die if one of the NATO members get invaded? Either that or the treaty doesn't really have teeth and why have a treaty in the first place if We might not enforce it. A "maybe", well, maybe I will pay the NATO dues for my defense.
By letting 30 countries in the alliance (most dead weight and free loaders) We are forced to go to war if any of them gets invaded or the treaty is a joke. The U.S. has to send American troops or the alliance is a joke and collapse. That's why I say that the 30 country alliance is way too much and We don't need that many to prevent WW 3. You don't.
By letting 30 countries in the alliance (most dead weight and free loaders) We are forced to go to war if any of them gets invaded or the treaty is a joke.t
None of the nations are freeloaders. I have looked at what each country pays. And we are not forced to go to war. We can send equipment and other sanction. Or just condemn the action. Or do nothing.. Show me where it says in the NATO agreement that we are forced to go to war and send American troops? You are whining over nothing.
The key section of the treaty is Article 5. Its commitment clause defines the casus foederis. It commits each member state to consider an armed attack against one member state, in Europe or North America, to be an armed attack against them all.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 03-14-2022 at 01:58 PM..
Yes. Part of the reason Putin never attacked Ukraine while Trump was in office is because Trump wanted out of NATO. Being part of NATO gives us a sense of unity and strength.
Yes. Part of the reason Putin never attacked Ukraine while Trump was in office is because Trump wanted out of NATO. Being part of NATO gives us a sense of unity and strength.
You know Ukraine is not in NATO or will never be. Plus, Trump made NATO raise their spending, so saying Trump made NATO weak is silly. The 20 year Afghanistan war made NATO weaker not Trump finally having the balls to demand of them to pay their fair share and step up their game and give a break to the American taxpayers.
That's like your parents demanding of you to raise your grades and do your chores in the house if you want to keep getting allowance. How is that making you weak? Maybe it might hurt your feelings at first and smell reality but that doesn't make you weak.
You know Ukraine is not in NATO or will never be. Plus, Trump made NATO raise their spending, so saying Trump made NATO weak is silly. The 20 year Afghanistan war made NATO weaker not Trump finally having the balls to demand of them to pay their fair share and step up their game and give a break to the American .
Latest numbers updated NATO countries are spending less on defense than before. Trump tried but did not really change anything. Only 10 countries are paying 2%.
Yes. Part of the reason Putin never attacked Ukraine while Trump was in office is because Trump wanted out of NATO. Being part of NATO gives us a sense of unity and strength.
Putin attacked Ukraine in 2014 under Obama.
The only sense of unity was when NATO/Obama rolled out the red carpet for Putin.
Are you optimistic that all those facts you've presented will change one iota of that posters erroneous assumptions?
There is one beneficial side affect from this Russian stupidity, in that most other nations that were previously content to "float along" with a less than optimal military budget, are now reconsidering the linear logic of that decision.
Canada for one is now talking about the fact that, although their fiscal budget had contained larger military provisions over the last few years, it had never spent that money - the public is now aware and waking up to the fact of a belligerent being just a scant stone's throw off it's northern shore.
Putins invasion is at least waking up NATO countries to take defense more seriously.
None of the nations are freeloaders. I have looked at what each country pays. And we are not forced to go to war. We can send equipment and other sanction. Or just condemn the action. Or do nothing.. Show me where it says in the NATO agreement that we are forced to go to war and send American troops? You are whining over nothing.
The key section of the treaty is Article 5. Its commitment clause defines the casus foederis. It commits each member state to consider an armed attack against one member state, in Europe or North America, to be an armed attack against them all.
Slovenia = 2 million people
North Macedonia= 2 million people
Montenegro= 600k people
Luxembourg= 600k people
Lithuania= 2.7 million
Latvia= 1.8 million
Estonia= 1.2 million
Croatia=4.2 million
Bulgaria=6.9
Albania = 3 million
Just to start, they don't need to be in NATO. Dead Weight and makes the region more unsecured and Russia bolder. Might as well make the whole Asia continent except Russia and China part of NATO. That's going to keep the peace and keep tensions low.
Since you know so much about article 5 by wikipedia and think it doesn't really means what it says, if a non-Nato member goes to war with Montenegro, Croatia, or Latvia and invades them, that means that wouldn't be an invasion like invading the U.S., itself????? So the treaty according to you doesn't mean what it says and has no teeth. Your words.
You are admitting that NATO Article 5 doesn't mean what it says and it only applies to the main NATO members. We just want a 30 member as a symbol.
Latest numbers updated NATO countries are spending less on defense than before. Trump tried but did not really change anything. Only 10 countries are paying 2%.
Trump brought awareness to the problem. He also warned Germany about it's reliance on Russian gas. But nothing less than an act of war was going to get NATO off its butt to start spending more on defense.
It was a 30 year trap, and NATO fell for it.
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Maybe it might hurt your feelings at first and smell reality but that doesn't make you weak.
