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Old 03-29-2022, 03:35 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,581 posts, read 17,304,861 times
Reputation: 37349

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
It's the same message Conservatives here have been saying forever. Ween yourself off foreign oil.

I can't believe you think Zelensky is some kind of agent for a "green agenda" when he's just trying to economically isolate the enemy. He hasn't called for investments in renewals, he hasn't told Norway they should stop using their own gas and oil reserves. Come back when you have something more.
That was actually the original purpose of the Department of Energy, founded in 1977 by Jimmy Carter.
It hasn't worked and the modern DOE is, of course a mere bureaucracy dedicated to nothing more than itself, its 45.5B dollar budget and its 14,382 employees. It is headed by Jennifer Granholm whose condescending smirk and fabricated laughter greet her every critic. She is a lawyer and a Canadian immigrant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seIyfixWTGw
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:09 PM
 
26,784 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10040
Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaFerrari626 View Post
Russia’s economy is based on a resource that the rest of the world is trying phase out of.
Ukraine is rich in resources such as rich black soil allowing it to grow what, as well as a reservoir of natural gas. They were looking to no longer be a middle-man for Russian oil, and Russia sees this as an existential threat. The green movement threatens Russia because Russia is facing the fact that it’s obsolete.

Capitalist nations when facing a crisis such as this tend to become more ultranationalist and resort to expansionism in order to survive. So it must absorb another nation for it’s resources.

So ya, we’re catching on.



Absolutely NOT.

You've got it all wrong.
In case with Russia, Ukraine was trying to "wag the dog" as well - i.e. trying to dictate to Russia on what conditions and at what price they were willing to export RUSSIAN gas to Europe.

To which Russia finally said "we are tired of it - YOU, trying to control our commodities," and decided to build the pipe going directly to Europe, skipping Ukraine as a "middle man" all together.

And that's when the hell broke lose - the West screaming its head off, that "Russia is using its natural resources as a weapon."
According to the *West's* plan/understanding, for some strange reason, Russia was supposed to keep on pumping gas via Ukraine, while paying it transit money and supporting its war machine, that was set to hit Russia.



Anyone can explain to me the logic behind it all?
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Florida
10,479 posts, read 4,046,033 times
Reputation: 8491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Eh, I think they are setting the stage for another 9/11, but this time it will be Russia instead of some Middle Eastern country. I won't be surprised if either Biden or Harris themselves are expunged during this attack.
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:13 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,128 posts, read 18,290,317 times
Reputation: 34997
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Absolutely NOT.

You've got it all wrong.
In case with Russia, Ukraine was trying to "wag the dog" as well - i.e. trying to dictate to Russia on what conditions and at what price they were willing to export RUSSIAN gas to Europe.

To which Russia finally said "we are tired of it - YOU, trying to control our commodities," and decided to build the pipe going directly to Europe, skipping Ukraine as a "middle man" all together.

And that's when the hell broke lose - the West screaming its head off, that "Russia is using its natural resources as a weapon."
According to the *West's* plan/understanding, for some strange reason, Russia was supposed to keep on pumping gas via Ukraine, while paying it transit money and supporting its war machine, that was set to hit Russia.



Anyone can explain to me the logic behind it all?
I saw this ...Nord Stream 2 was about to go online and *poof*..a war started.
US, UK and Ukraine were all against this pipeline.
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:35 PM
 
26,784 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10040
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
I saw this ...Nord Stream 2 was about to go online and *poof*..a war started.
US, UK and Ukraine were all against this pipeline.

OK, let's see here...


It looks like Russia started looking into the possibility of skipping Ukraine all together ( after all the "gas wars" with it) already back in 2011;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream#Nord_Stream_2


"In 2011, Nord Stream AG started evaluation of an expansion project consisting of two additional lines."


At this point if was still dependent on Ukraine's transit and Ukrainian whims, because Russia was leasing that Crimean military base from them.

Then 2014 came along, with the coup'detat sponsored by the West, and change of government in Kiev, but Russia

reacted quickly and seized Sevastopol with that military naval base.

Thus, it became free from Ukrainian blackmailing on that end.

However Russia received Western sanctions for that, and

"In January 2015, Gazprom announced that the expansion project had been put on hold since the existing lines were running at only half capacity, due to EU sanctions on Russia,[54] following its annexation of Crimea."


But then Germans apparently figured out that amidst the worsening relations between Kiev and Moscow, they better secure their gas access and proceeded with the building of the new rout avoiding Ukraine to be on a safe side, so..


"In June 2015, an agreement to build Nord Stream 2 was signed between Gazprom, Royal Dutch Shell, E.ON, OMV, and Engie.[55] As the creation of a joint venture was blocked by Poland,[clarification needed] on 24 April 2017, Uniper, Wintershall, Engie, OMV and Royal Dutch Shell signed a financing agreement with Nord Stream 2 AG, a subsidiary of Gazprom responsible for the development of the Nord Stream 2 project.[56]
On 31 January 2018, Germany granted Nord Stream 2 a permit for construction and operation in German waters and for landfall areas near Lubmin.[57]
In May 2018 construction started at the Greifswald end point."


But THIS was going against the interests of the US ( and some former Eastern European countries) that were hoping that Russia will be forced subsidizing Ukraine with its tanking economy, once it was cut off from the Russian one.

And that's how all this mass protesting against the NS 2 went ahead.

They all WANTED Ukraine to remain the major supplier of the Russian gas to Europe, since this was the ultimate way to control Russia financially and politically.

But Russians said "why should we subsidize the country that works against us ( i.e. Ukraine) while paying them for this transit."



And that's where things are until today.

Last edited by erasure; 03-29-2022 at 04:52 PM..
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:57 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,128 posts, read 18,290,317 times
Reputation: 34997
Not all were against Nordstream 2. Germany was for it right up until a few weeks ago on 2/22/22.
And the US even got Germany to agree to continue to get some oil from Ukraine.
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Old 03-29-2022, 05:03 PM
 
26,784 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10040
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Not all were against Nordstream 2. Germany was for it right up until a few weeks ago on 2/22/22.

Yes, after their new government changed to the "left-leaning" ( after Merkel was gone with other words.)


Quote:
And the US even got Germany to agree to continue to get some oil from Ukraine.


Oil from Ukraine?
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Old 03-29-2022, 05:26 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,128 posts, read 18,290,317 times
Reputation: 34997
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yes, after their new government changed to the "left-leaning" ( after Merkel was gone with other words.)






Oil from Ukraine?
Yes, deal struck July 2021. My bad..it wasn't oil but "energy security". The US got Germany to give Ukraine money.


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/21/us-g...-pipeline.html

The agreement reached between Washington and Berlin, which was announced Wednesday, aims to invest more than 200 million euros in energy security in Ukraine as well as sustainable energy across Europe.
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Old 03-29-2022, 05:30 PM
 
26,784 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10040
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Yes, deal struck July 2021. My bad..it wasn't oil but "energy security". The US got Germany to give Ukraine money.


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/21/us-g...-pipeline.html

The agreement reached between Washington and Berlin, which was announced Wednesday, aims to invest more than 200 million euros in energy security in Ukraine as well as sustainable energy across Europe.

I am not even going to ask "what for exactly," since I'm pretty sure most of it will be stolen by their thieving government officials anyway.
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Old 03-29-2022, 05:41 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 679,664 times
Reputation: 3164
Like "green" equals "bad."
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