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And that's why there is a lack of fathers.
Society, or at least enough men, shuck their responsibility and show other men that that is ok because all fault goes back to women. Unwanted pregnancy. Should have kept your legs shut. Abortion debate. Should have kept your legs shut. Fatherless kids. Should have chose better, woman defies custody order, court sides with women. Divorce, should have opened your legs, not your mouth. Lonely, sexless men, women should open their legs. Violence committed by men, women should open their legs.
It is really quite discouraging. Until men can admit and accept that they hold as much responsibility for reproduction, commitment, children and family as women it will only get worse.
When baby's born the mother is always there and is, by default, a parent, even if the father is nowhere to be found.
Lonely, sexless men, not the woman's responsibility. And divorce, joint responsibility. It's unfortunate but some responsibilities are not allocated fairly. The world can be a cruel place.
This is about street murders, such as happened on Juneteenth, not Uvalde or Sandy Hook.
I would posit that wearing a Big Bird suit would destroy any banger's will to draw his nine, hold it all wrong and fire wildly into a nightclub crowd. There's just a look there with the yellow feathers that isn't conducive to mass murder. I'm Wee-Bey after all. I know about these things.
I am tired of hearing that it's all the man's fault. Sorry, it takes two to reproduce, just as it should take two to raise a child. It's up to both to cooperate in raising the child, hopefully as a married couple, then, as two single parents. It is not on the government or the tooth fairy to pay for the children, and then let the "mothers" nod off. People should not be able to transfer the costs of their sexual recreation to the general public with impunity. Do tell me, what is the social value of allowing people to make children they can't and won't take responsibility for?
I have personal experience with the attention allocated for "poor" families. have actually put in time as a volunteer legal assistant trying to help the black community. I am not an online bigot. During 1982, while awaiting my Bar Examination results, I worked as a legal assistant in a legal services program for the poor rather than just virtue signal. This shows that I put action behind my words about helping poor people. I was not being paid. During this time, the painter for one of the contractors engaged to rehabilitate slum housing in Westchester County, New York took a liking to a 13 year old girl in one of the apartments he was painting. Can anyone tell us why the 13 year old girl wasn't in school, and wound up pregnant by the painter? I don't know if the painter stuck around to help raise the baby but I have my doubts. Where was the mother? The girl obviously wasn't in school. Where were the authorities? Why does this thing happen constantly? Any bets on whether that 13 year old from 1982 is a grandmother?
I asked my Legal Services supervisor if the mother of this 13 year old was at work. She said "no." I asked where she was. The answer was "she's a mother." I was terminated from the volunteer position shortly thereafter. I don't think my curiosity helped. I did get a paying job, as a legal intern and then on admission as a lawyer. That is what I still do.
Now, circling back to the thread topic and where this ties in, is it society's responsibility that this 13 year old's offspring from 1982 or more likely 1983 was "raised" by, in all likelihood, no one?
The painter deserves to hang by his fingernails, be jailed and sentenced to eternal damnation. What then?
I have never said it is all the mans fault, actually just the opposite. But men refusing to be involved in their children's life, refusing to put up a fight, is all the individual mans fault.
You assume mother's "nod off", dont work and are all on welfare. Not ture. But Im all for people who cant or wont take responsibility for children to abort the results of their sexual recreation, but society seems to feel otherwise.
I noticed in your personal experience you never once questioned where this 13 year old girls father was. Why was this father not protecting his daughter. Nor did you seem concerned that his painter had sex with a 13 year old, or that he was not held accountable to the child she bore. Surely the 13 year old child got medical attention. Why were authorities not called. Where was the DA to press charges, child services, a judge. In 1982, I would assume most all men.
When baby's born the mother is always there and is, by default, a parent, even if the father is nowhere to be found.
Lonely, sexless men, not the woman's responsibility. And divorce, joint responsibility. It's unfortunate but some responsibilities are not allocated fairly. The world can be a cruel place.
Funny, why do I always hear the phrase "we are pregnant". Biological fact. Natural pregnancy end in a child. The topic here is the resulting child, not the pregnancy. Another biological fact: pregnancy takes both sperm and ovum.
It really doesnt matter that the mother is present during birth or whether the father is present or not. There is a mother and a father, two biological parents. A parent is a caretaker of a child, not who was in attendence at birth.
Now being an attorney and all you should be familiar with the legal facts of parentage. The father, although he did not carry the pregnancy, has as much legal right (and responsibility) to that child.
Of course lonely, sexless men are not a womans responsibility but there are men who believe otherwise. Just like men who believe divorce is always a womans fault. I guess you have missed those threads.
I have never said it is all the mans fault, actually just the opposite. But men refusing to be involved in their children's life, refusing to put up a fight, is all the individual mans fault.
I have stayed married and been very involved in my spectrum child's struggle. Yes we have a good marriage but unlike many men in that situation I haven't gone anywhere nor will I.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
You assume mother's "nod off", don't work and are all on welfare. Not true. But Im all for people who cant or wont take responsibility for children to abort the results of their sexual recreation, but society seems to feel otherwise.
You and I agree there, and I am not with respect to the hypocrites in society on that. I am pro-choice. That may shock you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
I noticed in your personal experience you never once questioned where this 13 year old girls father was. Why was this father not protecting his daughter. Nor did you seem concerned that his painter had sex with a 13 year old, or that he was not held accountable to the child she bore. Surely the 13 year old child got medical attention. Why were authorities not called. Where was the DA to press charges, child services, a judge. In 1982, I would assume most all men.
Quite the contrary. One of the reasons Legal Services discontinued my volunteering is that my supervisor, a woman, took no interest in the obvious statutory rape by the painter and would not assist in the pressing of charges. I presume this was because of the 13 year old's mother's neglect and that she was the "client" of Legal Services. I thought it was borderline despicable. And you raise a good point about the 13 year old's father that I did not think about back in October or November 1982.
There has been a decades long erosion of morals and values in this country. I sound like a bible thumper here, but I'm really not. Responsibility, hard work, doing the right thing, etc seemingly has been reduced or whatever.
A general lack of standards and a general sense of lack of accountability. I don't know, not explaining as well as I want, but this is where we are now.
I don't feel like all is lost as I have friends and co-workers and they are all middle class stand up people, their kids are doing well in school and have good manners and all of that stuff.
Exactly.
The moral erosion is not just a man's fault or a woman's fault. It is all of us collectively overtime.
I'm not sure if we can ever get back to where we were but certainly not by blaming everyone else. We have to start with individual accountability and teaching our children personal accountability by setting examples and expectations.
I have stayed married and been very involved in my spectrum child's struggle. Yes we have a good marriage but unlike many men in that situation I haven't gone anywhere nor will I.
You and I agree there, and I am not with respect to the hypocrites in society on that. I am pro-choice. That may shock you.
Quite the contrary. One of the reasons Legal Services discontinued my volunteering is that my supervisor, a woman, took no interest in the obvious statutory rape by the painter and would not assist in the pressing of charges. I presume this was because of the 13 year old's mother's neglect and that she was the "client" of Legal Services. I thought it was borderline despicable. And you raise a good point about the 13 year old's father that I did not think about back in October or November 1982.
I have no doubt that you are a good father. As I said most every man I know is a good father.
One can still be a good father but not put up a fight to be involved or maintain their custody/visitation. But if they dont, its their own fault if they are being pushed out of their child life.
I dont know the situation with your supervisor. Curious, what was your involvement in this case? Did the state bring neglect charges due to the pregnancy?
2 Mares, if I knew you personally, I'd invite you over. I would take out all the paperwork from the court and lawyer from my case. I took her personally to court for me to pay child support and for visitation. Show you all, yes, I kept ALL receipts from paying child support. Plus the journal that my lawyer told me to start when the mother would break court order. Dated, times, copies of police records that I've made in response to her keeping them away from me, text messages saved when she used the kids against me to get MORE money, twice the actual amount for what I paid, etc.
So yes, I WILL blame her for the abuse that my children and I went through.
On a happy note, once they graduated and went to college, we developed a much more positive relationship with each other. Their words? They were scared of her if they did speak up on my behalf. Plus, they understood and did not put me as a deadbeat dad.
2 Mares, if I knew you personally, I'd invite you over. I would take out all the paperwork from the court and lawyer from my case. I took her personally to court for me to pay child support and for visitation. Show you all, yes, I kept ALL receipts from paying child support. Plus the journal that my lawyer told me to start when the mother would break court order. Dated, times, copies of police records that I've made in response to her keeping them away from me, text messages saved when she used the kids against me to get MORE money, twice the actual amount for what I paid, etc.
So yes, I WILL blame her for the abuse that my children and I went through.
On a happy note, once they graduated and went to college, we developed a much more positive relationship with each other. Their words? They were scared of her if they did speak up on my behalf. Plus, they understood and did not put me as a deadbeat dad.
Bingo…extremely sad how they use the child to get back at the father because of their scorn and bitterness…and then still blame the man for everything. They want paid while denying the father to see their children.
I have no doubt that you are a good father. As I said most every man I know is a good father.
One can still be a good father but not put up a fight to be involved or maintain their custody/visitation. But if they dont, its their own fault if they are being pushed out of their child life.
I dont know the situation with your supervisor. Curious, what was your involvement in this case? Did the state bring neglect charges due to the pregnancy?
I was a volunteer for what was then called Westchester Legal Services. Westchester Legal Services, on behalf of the tenant, brought a proceeding under New York law to dedicate the rental proceeds of buildings to maintenance and rehabilitation, before payment of debt service or to the landlord. The painter was engaged to paint the apartment. My involvement was drafting of papers. I don't know if neglect charges were brought but I would rate the odds as 1 in 100 that they were.
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