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Nazis were somewhat influenced by Marxism, and claimed to support the working class.
This is true. Hitler states this in mein kampf. Nazi applied alot fo Marxism into their structure. Fascism is also part of a Marxist lineage as well. Western Marxist and Eastern Marxist don't like to equate fascism and nazism as Marxist because it has evolved. Kind of how communist dotn consider western Marxist as Marxist because western Marxism is about social identity and not about class and land rights while maintaining the bougoussie.
One would have to be completely deranged to find parallels between MAGA and Nazism.
I totally disagree with this statement. Nothing is by accident, particularly the advancement of civilizations.
The quest for discovery and advancement is the hallmark of Western culture, going back to before Roman times. One could argue that capitalism played a major part in it as well. The need to invent ships capable of blue water travel, and the technologies to guide and protect them, was critical to trade outside the Mediterranean. This required advancement in design, materials, construction and mathematics.
Yes. MAGAs support Trump. Nazis support the totalitarian Biden regime, even if they don't call themselves Nazis.
Is it just me or is anybody else a little squeamish about this MAGA label. Democrats used it as a slur that implies white supremacy/nationalism (which they think are the same thing). They've cheerfully gotten lazy about using it for all republicans and republicans have gotten lazy and complacent about accepting being defined by it. Don't you feel kind of disgusted at having everything you believe in and stand for being distilled down to the acronym for a simplistic and vague slogan? I agree with most of the ideas behind Trump's push to blow the tires on the dems speeding microbus of Marxism but I really hate that MAGA label.
I find more parallels with the former Nazi party and today’s Democrats than I do any other faction of our government. Think like us or will silence you, will target you, will destroy your life, will take away your ability to make an income, have a life, or any kind of future if you don’t adhere to our beliefs”. That is pretty much the left party today in America. And, they’re being quite successful with this approach. What they don’t realize is this silencing of any and all other ideas outside of their own always comes full circle and will eventually come back to eat themselves. History shows us case after case of this.
Democrats always try to point the finger away from themselves and what THEY are doing. The above post is wholly accurate. The American left are the fascists. MAGA is old guard Americans trying to preserve the free republic we enjoyed from 7/4/1776 through 1/20/2021.
Last edited by SilkHammer; 08-20-2022 at 05:56 PM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
What is the difference? Some would say there is none.
MAGAs love their country, German Nazis loved Germany. Not just the countries, but the history and culture of the countries.
Nazis followed a populist leader, same for MAGAs.
Nazis believed in the superiority of the Germanic race.
Slow down here. Do MAGAs believe in the superiority of the white Western European race? Democrats accuse MAGAs of being racists; is there any truth in it?
I think most MAGAs acknowledge that the white Western European race is responsible for most of the discoveries and inventions that our modern society values. Is that the same as racism?
It is a fact that no one in Africa or Asia invented the printing press, light bulb, magnifying lens, steam engine, gasoline engine, electronic computer, etc., etc. Just a plain fact, with no implications about race. It is also a fact that most of that was accomplished by men, NOT women.
I personally think that technology took off in Europe because of historical accidents. There were advanced civilizations in Egypt, India, and China, for example, when the Europeans were still running around with spears.
I personally am NOT a worshiper of modern industrial civilization, and I think it is as or more harmful than helpful. But I also think it was inevitable that technological progress would start somewhere and take off. Our species had evolved brains capable of advanced math back when our ancestors were lucky if they could count to ten.
So for whatever reasons, and I think by chance, Western European civilization (and then extended to the USA) became the superior civilization.
I've got seven words to this one: Guns, Germs, and Steel, by Jared Diamond. Now obviously you are aware that NW Europe had certain advantages that gave it a huge boost in the industrial revolution. NW Europe's geography has a very indented coastline, which pretty much preordained it to have a strong maritime tradition.
Plus it's chilly but not freezing winters prevented diseases from being as prevalent as in many other areas (naturally that didn't stop smallpox, the plague, etc. but it still didn't have nearly as much malaria, no dengue fever, and other tropical diseases. That's still a huge advantage). Its steady year-round rainfall also means they didn't need to irrigate (irrigation is notorious for depositing salts in the soil, which ruins farmland). Fewer diseases, steady rainfall with large areas suited for farming, plus the indented coastline (which also made fish readily available) meant a more diversified diet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
Black Americans came here involuntarily (sold by African chiefs) and were not educated. Therefore they did not contribute much until relatively recently.
If the Europeans didn't buy the slaves, then the African chiefs wouldn't have sold them to the Europeans. To other people, admittedly, but not to Europeans. That makes the Europeans every bit as guilty of slavery as the African chiefs were, for that incentivized the African chiefs to capture more of their neighbors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
So how is all this related to MAGA, to Nazis, and to the Woke Left?
The Left wants to focus on whatever the white Europeans did that now seems wrong to us. Slavery, fighting natives, etc.
You reasoning takes a major swan dive here. The left is against involuntary servitude (i.e., business owners forcing people to work for them without pay). Fighting navies? It was the left who opposed the Vietnam and Iraq wars, may I remind you. OK, not the left in Congress (hoodwinked into the Saddam's nuclear bomb plants misinfo); but the activist left definitely opposed the Iraq and Vietnam Wars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
They want to take all credit away from Western civilization, and the inventions and discoveries made by white males.
Wokees think whites should be ashamed of their heritage, NOT proud of it. They think we should stop having national pride and national borders. We should identify with all of humanity, NOT just with our own culture.
This is just sheer hysterical, scary sensationalism here. Nobody is taking credit from the Greek intellectual achievements, the Roman's engineering ones, and the West's development of science as we know it. The truth is that Europe learned and/or rediscovered this in large part from the Muslims and put their own stamp on it. Just like the Japanese auto and electronics industry took Western science and tech, and put their own stamp on it. That's all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
MAGAism basically fights back against Wokism.
More like your side's imaginary bogeyman caricature of Wokeism. IOW, fighting a mirage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
I think both sides, in moderation, are somewhat understandable. But each side perceives the other as a demonic caricature.
I'll be the first to admit that there's no shortage of educated and/or wealthy people who strongly disdain the common people. You won't find me defending those types. At the same time, the common folk seem to have their own snobbiness against people who can't or won't fit into people who just cannot agree with traditional values, who think or act harmlessly different from the vast majority, or anything that's "unnatural" or "un-(sex/gender here)-ly. That's hardly any better than classism. Just because all sides engage in snobbery or (worse) demonization against the non-threateningly different or inadequate does not justify your own non-defensive attacks on others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
There is NOTHING wrong with loving your own country and wanting it to be great (depending how you define "great.") There is NOTHING wrong with having leaders who are populists, rather than elitists.
Elitism is disregarding the well-being of those "beneath one's self". Populism's weakness is that it puts too much faith in common sense, tradition, and simple answers. It actually evolves into its own kind of elitism - the superior worth (if not moral value) of the 'normal' segment of the common folk over 'the others'. Also conventional thinking has been wrong in the past. Sometimes those who specialize in certain fields do know things the non-specialist does not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
At the same time, we should be careful not to identify our civilization with whiteness and maleness. Yes, in the past it definitely was dominated by white males. Women were busy taking care of the home and children, and were not welcome out in the world of men.
But now days women and non-white races are not prevented from being educated and contributing to the society, whether in technology, science, business, or whatever.
The GREAT MAJORITY of MAGAs have NO interest in holding back women, non-whites, gays, etc. NONE. Therefore, they are NOT white supremacists or racists.
Can you see how these concepts became tangled and confused, and how MAGAs have been misunderstood and demonized. And they in return have misunderstood and demonized the Wokees. (The Wokees are more crazy though, in my opinion.)
So there is a BIG difference between a typical MAGA and a Nazi.
That first paragraph is correct. Unfortunately, entrenched cultural traits have a strange way of persisting over time. Meaning, certain attitudes take a lot longer to purge from the system than we (and even I, long ago) tend to think - even if you and your own close or loose social circle doesn't act and think in 1950s ways.
MAGA cheers at Trump rallies and on right-wing social media comments certainly suggest that a lot (if not most) of MAGA supports nasty and vile attitudes toward historic 'out-groups', the weak, the unattractive, the incompetent, the weird or otherwise popularly-distasteful different. More to the point, if MAGA's not so bigoted, then why do you cheer on and vote for the far right candidates in the first place? Especially those who aren't actual conservatives so much as reactionaries, and in a few cases even outright fascist.
I believe in the superiority of those who work hard and excel. Doesn't matter the race or culture.
Where white nationalists (there really aren't that many despite what the left claims) go wrong is thinking that whites are superior. They are not, especially in this country. Many are just as lazy or more lazy than the foreigners who come here and work. There are plenty of Asians and Indians that are superior in many ways, due to their culture pushing hard work and the fact they came from countries with oppressive governments, so they tend to be more grateful and less entitled when they get here.
Get people off the government dole and get them working, contributing, growing, and excelling. Knowledge is power. Critical thinking skills are key. Leadership doesn't like people thinking critically, because it means they might see through the leadership's bull****, of which there is more than plenty to go around.
The less government meddles in people's lives, the more our whole planet can grow and become a carbon zero, technologically advanced species. The US had lead the way in green energy and technological innovation because our mixed capitalist system WORKS. The big fear is we get an ever more meddlesome government that oppresses the free market to a degree where innovation and growth cease. Keep these politician's paws off our rights and get them to leave us alone. Less micro-managing of every little aspect of people's lives. I suspect the opposite will occur... our planet will turn into a dystopian micro-managed nightmare with cameras on every corner. Leadership uses control to maintain their power.
One quote demolishes the idea that the Nazis are like the conservative American right.
Quote:
Reading from diary: February 21, 1933. Our propaganda is considered to be exemplary, not just by the German press, but by the international press, too. We have acquired so much expertise in this field during previous election campaigns that we can overcome our opponents. We frighten them, and they hardly dare utter a word. Now we will show what the apparatus can achieve, if you know how to use it.
This is one of the most important proclamations that helps an average person to understand how a regime like the Nazis came to power.
Quote:
Milieu Control
The most basic feature of the thought reform environment, the psychological current upon which all else depends, is the control of human communication. Through this milieu control the totalist environment seeks to establish domain over not only the individ- ual's communication with the outside (all that he sees and hears, reads and writes, experiences, and expresses), but also—in its penetration of his inner life—over what we may speak of as his communication with himself. It creates an atmosphere uncom- fortably reminiscent of George Orwell's 1984; but with one im- portant difference. Orwell, as a Westerner, envisioned milieu con- trol accomplished by a mechanical device, the two-way "tele- screen." The Chinese, although they utilize whatever mechanical means they have at their disposal, achieve control of greater psycho- logical depth through a human recording and transmitting ap- paratus. It is probably fair to say that the Chinese Communist prison and revolutionary university produce about as thoroughly controlled a group environment as has ever existed. The milieu control exerted over the broader social environment of Communist China, while considerably less intense, is in its own way unrivalled in its combination of extensiveness and depth; it is, in fact, one of the distinguishing features of Chinese Communist practice.
Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study in Brainwashing in China by Robert Jay Lifton
If you believe the traditionalist random Christian nuclear family had thoughts of domination running through them like this then you are insane. These people were more apt to say they just wanted to be left alone or “limit the government” more so than talking about how efficiently the apparatus can be used to change society.
There is a party however that fits all those criteria right now, though. One that seems to be backed by and also back themselves people who believe in societal indoctrination, the nationalization of the police and elections, open borders where the deadliest drug to date flows freely across it and the people pouring over the border change want it means to be sovereign when there is no requirement for citizenship. If the pandemic was even naturally occurring, it was used to usher in “global equity,” DEI, CRT, ***** Theory, etc resulting in a total assault on what it means to be an American who believes in freedom of speech, freedom of though, capitalism and private property. This is “total politics” where good faith elections is no longer the goal of “democracy.” This is a move towards a global democratic dictatorship.
Last edited by BigJon3475; 08-20-2022 at 06:24 PM..
If you believe the traditionalist random Christian nuclear family had thoughts of domination running through them like this then you are insane. These people were more apt to say they just wanted to be left alone or “limit the government” more so than talking about how efficiently the apparatus can be used to change society.
There is a party however that fits all those criteria right now, though.
I believe in the superiority of those who work hard and excel. Doesn't matter the race or culture.
Where white nationalists (there really aren't that many despite what the left claims) go wrong is thinking that whites are superior. They are not, especially in this country. Many are just as lazy or more lazy than the foreigners who come here and work. There are plenty of Asians and Indians that are superior in many ways, due to their culture pushing hard work and the fact they came from countries with oppressive governments, so they tend to be more grateful and less entitled when they get here.
Get people off the government dole and get them working, contributing, growing, and excelling. Knowledge is power. Critical thinking skills are key. Leadership doesn't like people thinking critically, because it means they might see through the leadership's bull****, of which there is more than plenty to go around.
The less government meddles in people's lives, the more our whole planet can grow and become a carbon zero, technologically advanced species. The US had lead the way in green energy and technological innovation because our mixed capitalist system WORKS. The big fear is we get an ever more meddlesome government that oppresses the free market to a degree where innovation and growth cease. Keep these politician's paws off our rights and get them to leave us alone. Less micro-managing of every little aspect of people's lives. I suspect the opposite will occur... our planet will turn into a dystopian micro-managed nightmare with cameras on every corner. Leadership uses control to maintain their power.
White nationalists are not the same as white supremacists. I wish people would buy a dictionary.
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