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I felt Trump doesn’t actually value our system of government and his instincts tend toward authoritarianism, to me that plenty radical and was to me a scary 4 years due to that. He doesn’t want a free press, or freedom of protest. He admitted the Saudis for dealing with protesters by jailing and executing them, he admired the Philippines president for having drug users shot. Even yesterday, he called for the jailing of the reporters who broke the leaked Dobbs decision. I can’t be okay with any of that. I think DeSantis has his own authoritarian tendencies, with all the book bannings, don’t say gay laws, etc.
If Trump was an authoritarian, than I think he would have sent the national guard to put the boot on all those "summer of love" protesters that were trashing our cities. If you can provide some examples of Trump being an authoritarian, a fascist, or any of the other names the left applied to him, I would be interested in reading about them.
The fact is, democrats call every republican president since GWB nazis, fascists, authoritarians, etc, but it doesn't make it so. But of course, they are free to say it and some people will always fall for their lies and narratives. But I remember well all those silly pictures of GWB with a toothbrush mustache like Hitler. It's all very childish.
Donald Trump was a dictator. Dictatorships are often characterised by some of the following: suspension of elections and civil liberties; proclamation of a state of emergency; rule by decree; repression of political opponents; not abiding by the procedures of the rule of law, and the existence of a cult of personality centered on the leader.
Donald Trump was a dictator. Dictatorships are often characterised by some of the following: suspension of elections and civil liberties; proclamation of a state of emergency; rule by decree; repression of political opponents; not abiding by the procedures of the rule of law, and the existence of a cult of personality centered on the leader.
I stopped reading at the first paragraph where it said Trump’s efforts to personally direct the storming of the Capitol, murder his opponents, and establish himself as dictator.
If that was his plan, it would have happened. Just like if he was an authoritarian, he would have called in the national guard to deal with antifa and BLM wrecking our cities. I remember very well the CHOP/CHAZ experiment, when a bunch of leftist radicals declared a piece of the USA independent and autonomous... Basically stealing an entire small community of the USA. Trump never sent in the army, national guard or anyone to deal with that. What kind of an authoritarian lets something like that slide???
Jan 6th is basically just Nancy Pelosi's and the Democrats bright shiny object throw in people's faces whenever they are discussing all the damage Biden and the democrats are inflicting on the USA.
These articles that democrats come up with about republicans being authoritarians and dictators make it hard to take them seriously. This is especially true when you look at their policies, that they themselves have some authoritarian tendencies, as does the WEF that they worship.
It just goes to show you that media narratives work among a subset of the population. Heck, 3/4 of the posters here think the covid vaccines will kill everyone who gets them, and 3/4 of democrats think republicans are authoritarian nazis . Narrative brainwashing at work by different media sources but brainwashing nonetheless.
It's true that the Chinese CCP more resembles a conservative philosophy however. A certain subset of conservatives lean more puritan as opposed to classical liberals or libertarians. I would argue some of the restrictions like 3 hours of video games per week are actually healthy for society, but you know "meh freedoms" and all... people like to do what they want to do, and don't want to be told what to do, myself included. It's something we could debate all day, what kind of rules society should have that would benefit us all. To enforce such rules requires strict monitoring of everything a person does 1984 style. I don't believe most conservatives would support that.
Am not asking about the US as a country. Am asking about the individuals.
Between a person from somewhere sort of 'Red' like, let us say Utah, and a person from somewhere sort of 'Blue' like, let us say Oregon, which person is MORE LIKELY, not assuredly, to be favorable to the level of governmental intrusions into personal lives the way the Chinese government does?
If you see someone advocating for a meatless diet, inevitably, you will assume that person to be of the 'Left' or liberal side of the political spectrum, correct? Am not saying that there are no conservative vegans. Personally, I know several conservative vegans but they are so for %99 health issues related reasons, meaning each of them have some health issues that upon their doctors' recommendations, they eat a mostly vegetarian diet. And they leave everyone else alone for that.
In the same vein, if you see a 'prepper', inevitably, you will assume that person to be of 'Right' or conservative side of the political spectrum, correct? Personally, I do not know of any liberal prepper.
The Communist Party of China (CPC) portrayed itself as THE definitive leader for China, then proceeded to make institutional provisions to secure that place for itself, such as political violence or banning opposition parties. We see similarities of that in California and New York where the reputations are that they are 'single party' states. Similar, not identical. In China, if your company reached a certain level of market capitalization, there must be a party member on the board. In the US, now we see how much ideological alignments there are between many corporations and the Democratic Party.
Banning the gas stove? Yes, I read enough of the rebuttals to the Republicans. But am not surprised -- not one bit -- that such an idea came from the Left. Sure, there will always be individual instances of authoritarian personalities and I got no problems saying Donald Trump is definitely one. But it is difficult to see how anyone like Trump could convince an entire political bloc that the government should be and actually is the solution to all problems the way the CPC did.
When we think about it, there is a critical difference here. For the Right, you need to convince, but for the Left, you need to implement. In other words, for the Left, there is no need to change anyone's mind, if you believe that the government is a 'good' instead of a necessary 'evil', then the problem is how get all that 'goodness' into everyone's lives as soon as possible because, after all, you know better than they do for what is good for them. And this is why the CPC model of governance is so attractive to the Left.
I would say the right. The Right is who wants to tell me if I can smoke pot, have an abortion, go to the library and check out certain books, or put a picture of my wife and me on my desk (if I was gay).
I would say the right. The Right is who wants to tell me if I can smoke pot,...
Then why not cigarettes or cigars? Or ban gas stove?
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
...have an abortion,...
That the act involves another human being is a reasonable argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
...go to the library and check out certain books,...
Certain books do not belong in the library. A list can be negotiated.
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
...or put a picture of my wife and me on my desk (if I was gay).
I know of no conservative who cares if you have a picture of your gay partner on your desk.
My point is this...
If you take any issue, not high level but as personal as possible, and you present it to any person, family or friend or stranger, you can have better than 50/50 odds that you would be accurate as to their ideological/political persuasion.
Abortion? Pro-life would be conservative and pro-choice would be liberal.
Guns? Pro 2nd would be conservative and ban would be liberal.
And so on...
But as of now, the China model of governance is more attractive to the American Left than to the American Right simply because that model have more intrusions into the personal aspects of ordinary life.
China once had forced abortions and sterilizations, and it is the American Intellectual Left who advocates population control and by force if necessary in order to 'save the planet'.
China do not want an armed citizenry.
There is no land ownership in China, you can only have permission from the government to use the land, but not own it.
There is no civil aviation in China. Internal airspace is under military control.
There is the hukou family registration system that many Western intellectuals likes to have better population and social control.
Then why not cigarettes or cigars? Or ban gas stove?
That the act involves another human being is a reasonable argument.
Certain books do not belong in the library. A list can be negotiated.
I know of no conservative who cares if you have a picture of your gay partner on your desk.
My point is this...
If you take any issue, not high level but as personal as possible, and you present it to any person, family or friend or stranger, you can have better than 50/50 odds that you would be accurate as to their ideological/political persuasion.
Abortion? Pro-life would be conservative and pro-choice would be liberal.
Guns? Pro 2nd would be conservative and ban would be liberal.
And so on...
But as of now, the China model of governance is more attractive to the American Left than to the American Right simply because that model have more intrusions into the personal aspects of ordinary life.
China once had forced abortions and sterilizations, and it is the American Intellectual Left who advocates population control and by force if necessary in order to 'save the planet'.
China do not want an armed citizenry.
There is no land ownership in China, you can only have permission from the government to use the land, but not own it.
There is no civil aviation in China. Internal airspace is under military control.
There is the hukou family registration system that many Western intellectuals likes to have better population and social control.
In Florida, you can get fired if you're a teacher and you put a picture of you and spouse in your desk.
It's not the governments place to decide which books belong in libraries. I am an adult. If I want to read about a transgender man's life experience, who is anyone to say otherwise? If there's no porn or anything like that in it, what's the problem? What's the problem with Toni Morrison, or a graphic novel of Anne Frank's Diary? The Right wants the rest of the country to conform to their idea of what values are important, and tell everyone else how to live their lives.
Smoking bans were not from the left, they were bipartisan for the most part. I don't agree though that government should tell any business whether people can or can't smoke there. Here's from NJ seeking to ban smoking in casinos:
"Two months after the bill stalled in the last legislative session, 15 more members of the state Assembly — both Democrats and Republicans — signed on as sponsors this past week.
In all, there are now 35 members of the Assembly and state Senate sponsoring the measure (S264) — including all three lawmakers representing Atlantic City in the Statehouse, a trio of Republicans who recently took office."
It's not the governments place to decide which books belong in libraries. I am an adult. If I want to read about a transgender man's life experience, who is anyone to say otherwise? If there's no porn or anything like that in it, what's the problem? What's the problem with Toni Morrison, or a graphic novel of Anne Frank's Diary? The Right wants the rest of the country to conform to their idea of what values are important, and tell everyone else how to live their lives.
The issue is children. Conservatives want certain books out of reach of children. The list can be debated, but there is no debating that certain sexual issues should be restricted from children. If a Democrat want to raise their children with early sexual education, do it in the privacy of their own homes.
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Smoking bans were not from the left, they were bipartisan for the most part. I don't agree though that government should tell any business whether people can or can't smoke there.
Fine. But explain why the promotion of marijuana in smoking form?
But the bottom line is this...
Population control -- Left.
No guns -- Left.
No cars -- Left.
No wealth -- Left.
Big government -- Left.
No borders -- Left.
The list goes on. What are the odds that Heather Kaye, the woman in the Guardian article who misses how the Chinese government controlled her family life, would be a Republican in the US? So far, no one answered, or more importantly, no one of the Liberal side of this forum answered. Why not?
As a refugee from communism, for the past 48 yrs of living in the US, I recognized the patterns of Marxist leaning trend of the American Intellectual Left, the American Political Left enabled institutional methods, then the American Activist Left intimidate the populace into submission.
Some posters are trying to argue that authoritarians are only on the left or the right. The reality is that there are two scales at play: liberal versus conservative and authoritarian versus libertarian. There are authoritarians and libertarians on both sides of the political axis. Leftist authoritarians support big government while rightwing authoritarians favor religion over government. Now let's look at China. China is a place with an all encompassing big government that oppresses or even forbids many religions. Right off the bat that has more in common with leftwing philosophy. China uses big tech to surveil its population. American big tech is displaying similar behaviors and shows ongoing support for the Democrat party.
Some posters try to say China and the rightwing have more in common because of Trump but Donald Trump was Democrat for most of his life.
Some posters are trying to argue that authoritarians are only on the left or the right. The reality is that there are two scales at play: liberal versus conservative and authoritarian versus libertarian. There are authoritarians and libertarians on both sides of the political axis. Leftist authoritarians support big government while rightwing authoritarians favor religion over government. Now let's look at China. China is a place with an all encompassing big government that oppresses or even forbids many religions. Right off the bat that has more in common with leftwing philosophy. China uses big tech to surveil its population. American big tech is displaying similar behaviors and shows ongoing support for the Democrat party.
Some posters try to say China and the rightwing have more in common because of Trump but Donald Trump was Democrat for most of his life.
THAT is why no one from the Left side of the political spectrum on this forum answered the question: What are the odds that Heather Kaye, the woman in the Guardian article who misses how the Chinese government was her life, could be a Republican?
And I agree with your separation of the authoritarian figures IN the Left and the Right. Very true. There are always gradations of 'Leftist' and 'Rightist' in their respective camps. The extremes are the ends of the ruler. The moderates are those who we calls 'left off' or 'right off' center.
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