Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-24-2024, 11:24 AM
 
46,978 posts, read 26,033,054 times
Reputation: 29467

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
Putin's peace deal to Ukraine that was rejected said Ukraine could join the EU but not NATO.

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia-ukr...ument-6e12e093
They'd like for Ukraine to receive money from the EU and remain defenseless. No ulterior motives there, I'm sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-24-2024, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,226,529 times
Reputation: 16757
NATO was created to be a bar to the expansionism of the Russian empire (or Soviet Union). If you offer them membership, you will get the same result as having Russia on the UN Security Council - obstruction.
People have short memories over in the West. But the former slave states have a different opinion about the "benevolent" Russians. Practically all of their neighbors suffered from Russian expansionism - China, Poland, Germany, Finland, and so on.

Despite some glaring mistakes, this animation is quite informative...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9jUHtx1VM8

The short version : Putin is following the centuries old Russian "Playbook" for autocrats and warlords. Replacing him will do nothing to change their goals. They will not stop. You have to STOP them. Very sternly, it would appear.

Let's not forget that UKRAINE was chivvied into surrendering their nuclear arsenal back to the Russians on their solemn promise to honor the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Now Putin, a megalomaniacal European leader with designs on Eastern Europe, is saying things like ‘Ukraine has no independent right to exist.’

SO MUCH FOR RUSSIAN PROMISES ! [/SARCASM]
Prigozhin certainly got the message.
(Let's not forget that Putin is also claiming that Alaska still belongs to Russia...)

Tragic as it will be, even the demographic crisis (depopulation) has not deterred them from killing off 400,000 of their prime breeding stock, and further hastening their ultimate collapse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2024, 11:45 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,182 posts, read 18,329,147 times
Reputation: 35041
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
NATO was created to be a bar to the expansionism of the Russian empire (or Soviet Union). If you offer them membership, you will get the same result as having Russia on the UN Security Council - obstruction.
People have short memories over in the West. But the former slave states have a different opinion about the "benevolent" Russians. Practically all of their neighbors suffered from Russian expansionism - China, Poland, Germany, Finland, and so on.

Despite some glaring mistakes, this animation is quite informative...


The short version : Putin is following the centuries old Russian "Playbook" for autocrats and warlords. Replacing him will do nothing to change their goals. They will not stop. You have to STOP them. Very sternly, it would appear.

Let's not forget that UKRAINE was chivvied into surrendering their nuclear arsenal back to the Russians on their solemn promise to honor the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Now Putin, a megalomaniacal European leader with designs on Eastern Europe, is saying things like ‘Ukraine has no independent right to exist.’

SO MUCH FOR RUSSIAN PROMISES ! [/SARCASM]
(Let's not forget that Putin is also claiming that Alaska still belongs to Russia...)

Tragic as it will be, even the demographic crisis (depopulation) has not deterred them from killing off 400,000 of their prime breeding stock, and further hastening their ultimate collapse.
It's been 3 years now....

Putin did not invade Europe.
China did not invade Taiwan.

But you go on and keep believing the propaganda that the US must save the world from invasions that have not happened.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2024, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,226,529 times
Reputation: 16757
NATO IS NOT THE REMEDY
The new "buzz word" is demographics, as in the precipitous drop in population in certain countries. Ignore the official reasons, because they're a smokescreen. Let's just say that it's no coincidence that the biggest "losers" have socialist governments (as in social security - not communist governments). And NATO is not immune. Most of its members have declining populations.

https://www.populationpyramid.net/ru...deration/2024/
FYI - Russia's population peaked in 1993 at 148,829,113; and has been on the decline.
Projections have the population dropping to 112,068,747 by 2100.

The basic fact is that the prime childbearing population is shrinking, as is the births per woman. And as each generation diminishes, so, too, does the next generation.

This does not bode well because (a) it reduces the labor population, which in turn, reduces the (b) taxpayer base, which means that the growing recipient base has fewer and fewer taxpayers to support it.
Without sufficient labor, industry cannot operate. And as prosperity tanks, so too, does investment. It's a spiral into collapse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2024, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,226,529 times
Reputation: 16757
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
It's been 3 years now....

Putin did not invade Europe.
China did not invade Taiwan.

But you go on and keep believing the propaganda that the US must save the world from invasions that have not happened.
TIMELINE OF RUSSIA ACQUISITIONS (recent)
1 Moldova. 1.1 Transnistria (1992–present)
2 Georgia. 2.1 Abkhazia and South Ossetia (2008–present)
3 Ukraine.
3.1 Crimea, parts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts (2014–present)
3.2 Invasion of Ukraine (2022–present)
4 Kuril Islands dispute.

Russian-occupied territories are lands under Russian military occupation. The term is applied to territories in Georgia (Abkhazia and South Ossetia), Moldova (Transnistria), and parts of Ukraine.

Additionally, the four southernmost Kuril Islands are disputed with Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ed_territories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

Don't forget that Vladivostok was graciouosly annexed from China.
And let's consider how Russia likes to expel the locals, and replace them with GOOD RUSSIANS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
_ _ _ Ethnic composition of Crimea's population has changed dramatically since the early 20th century. The 1897 Russian Empire Census for the Taurida Governorate reported: 196,854 (13.06%) Crimean Tatars, 404,463 (27.94%) Russians and 611,121 (42.21%) Ukrainians.
_ _ _
Crimea’s population has been dramatically “adjusted” by government, including expulsion of Germans (& other minorities) during WW2, relocation of Tatars, and displacement of Ukrainian speaking people, by Russian immigrants.
(Russia now claims that 84% of Crimea are native Russian speakers.)


If you want more insight into the Russian view on expansion, check out Rudyard Kipling's classic "Kim." There's a cute episode with Russian surveyors making military maps in what was then the British Raj. It's been the name of the game for centuries.


The current Chinese expansionism is another topic for another thread. But if you're curious look into their rapid building of bases on manufactured islands in the South China Sea. They're not limiting their grasp to Taiwan. They're going to grab for the gusto.
It's ironic, since their demographic crisis is going to trim their population from 1.4 billion to 600 million. Perhaps that is the reason for the "rush." Won't have enough laborers and cannon fodder if they wait too long.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2024, 12:15 PM
 
26,798 posts, read 22,587,866 times
Reputation: 10044
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
TIMELINE OF RUSSIA ACQUISITIONS (recent)
1 Moldova. 1.1 Transnistria (1992–present)
2 Georgia. 2.1 Abkhazia and South Ossetia (2008–present)
3 Ukraine.
3.1 Crimea, parts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts (2014–present)
3.2 Invasion of Ukraine (2022–present)
4 Kuril Islands dispute.

Russian-occupied territories are lands under Russian military occupation. The term is applied to territories in Georgia (Abkhazia and South Ossetia), Moldova (Transnistria), and parts of Ukraine.

Additionally, the four southernmost Kuril Islands are disputed with Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ed_territories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

Don't forget that Vladivostok was graciouosly annexed from China.
And let's consider how Russia likes to expel the locals, and replace them with GOOD RUSSIANS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
_ _ _ Ethnic composition of Crimea's population has changed dramatically since the early 20th century. The 1897 Russian Empire Census for the Taurida Governorate reported: 196,854 (13.06%) Crimean Tatars, 404,463 (27.94%) Russians and 611,121 (42.21%) Ukrainians.
_ _ _
Crimea’s population has been dramatically “adjusted” by government, including expulsion of Germans (& other minorities) during WW2, relocation of Tatars, and displacement of Ukrainian speaking people, by Russian immigrants.
(Russia now claims that 84% of Crimea are native Russian speakers.)

The current Chinese expansionism is another topic for another thread. But if you're curious look into their rapid building of bases on manufactured islands in the South China Sea. They're not limiting their grasp to Taiwan. They're going to grab for the gusto.
It's ironic, since their demographic crisis is going to trim their population from 1.4 billion to 600 million. Perhaps that is the reason for the "rush." Won't have enough laborers and cannon fodder if they wait too long.

The WHOLE of US is founded on someone else's land, ( the original inhabitants were killed/placed in the reservations,) and you point at Russians when they do whatever they do, while adjoining the near-by lands to them?
Ridiculous.

This is the whole premise of modern history - how the current states were created.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2024, 12:18 PM
 
30,463 posts, read 21,316,648 times
Reputation: 12010
Send our men and planes and tanks and get it over with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2024, 12:23 PM
 
2,027 posts, read 1,319,080 times
Reputation: 5089
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
I don't want to be on the hook for either Russia or Ukraine.

I don't trust Putin or Zelensky.




Putin's peace deal to Ukraine that was rejected said Ukraine could join the EU but not NATO.

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia-ukr...ument-6e12e093

I can't read the WSJ article, but other sources say that Ukraine agreed to Russia's no NATO stipulation.
So the claim it's about NATO is not true.
The sticking point was Russia's insistence upon Ukraine giving up the invaded territories. So it still looks like armed robbery.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2024, 12:30 PM
 
26,798 posts, read 22,587,866 times
Reputation: 10044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
I can't read the WSJ article, but other sources say that Ukraine agreed to Russia's no NATO stipulation.
So the claim it's about NATO is not true.
The sticking point was Russia's insistence upon Ukraine giving up the invaded territories. So it still looks like armed robbery.

From what I know, it's actually true.

Ukrainians were about to agree on all these conditions, but then entered Boris Johnson and talked them out of this agreement.

In fact, it's mostly UK now that's in charge of this war, and that's why you see so many damages specifically to Russian fleet/naval areas.
The handwriting of a sea power is unmistakable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2024, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,226,529 times
Reputation: 16757
FWIW - non-Russian peoples are not always happy about being subjects of the "benevolent" Rus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto
" The place where I was born and spent my childhood gave direction to all my future struggles. In Bialystok the inhabitants were divided into four distinct elements: Russians, Poles, Germans and Jews; each of these spoke their own language and looked on all the others as enemies."
- - - L. L. Zamenhof, in a letter to N. Borovko, ca. 1895
One of my co-workers married a Ukrainian lass (many many years ago) whose family escaped from the glorious Peoples Republic. She spoke eight languages, yet despite her advanced education, did not know where the Atlantic Ocean was.

Odd, yes?

Propaganda ministries operate all over the world - even in the USA. They don't have to lie, just omit certain facts.

To further illustrate, not 1 in 100,000 Americans can accurately define the republican form of government, its source and origin.
NO, it's not synonymous with a republic. The Peoples Republic of China is a republic but NOT a republican form. And it existed BEFORE the USCON, so it cannot be a "constitutional republic." And the democratic form and the republican form are mutually exclusive. Though the USCON guarantees a republican form, the government claims a mandate to make the world safe for democracy. How odd!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top