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I will agree that a person can and should negotiate for the best deal he can get from an employer, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, that has nothing to do with unions
So, what's in your interest is right and what's against it is wrong, eh? When the worker bargains as an individual he bargains from a position of weakness but when a union bargains for a group their position is stronger. And that's good for workers and bad for you.
Seeing as you're an employer you really have little to say that's pertinent to worker's interests. It's like asking the KKK what's good for Blacks and Catholics. Whether or not we form unions is really none of your business.
So, what's in your interest is right and what's against it is wrong, eh? When the worker bargains as an individual he bargains from a position of weakness but when a union bargains for a group their position is stronger. And that's good for workers and bad for you.
Seeing as you're an employer you really have little to say that's pertinent to worker's interests. It's like asking the KKK what's good for Blacks and Catholics. Whether or not we form unions is really none of your business.
Wrong, typical socialist nonsense, when I, as an employee talk to a prospective employer about my possible employment, I am selling MY skills, talent's, abilities and experience, because they are looking at hiring me as an individual not a group. Every one in the group is not worth the same just because they have a membership to that group. I certainly wouldnt limit myself in that way! You really have very little common sense when it comes to business tom. If business owners actually had the attitude and mentality that you suggest, they wouldnt be in business very long. A profitable business needs happy and loyal customers, to acheive that you must have happy and loyal employees! Something tells me you could never grasp that! Actually you are correct in a sense, some one who could not get the job or keep it on his own would need a union to help secure a job and keep it, so yeah he would be negotiating from a position of weakness, because he is a weak candidate for the job and pay!
Wrong, typical socialist nonsense, when I, as an employee talk to a prospective employer about my possible employment, I am selling MY skills, talent's, abilities and experience, because they are looking at hiring me as an individual not a group. Every one in the group is not worth the same just because they have a membership to that group. I certainly wouldnt limit myself in that way! You really have very little common sense when it comes to business tom. If business owners actually had the attitude and mentality that you suggest, they wouldnt be in business very long. A profitable business needs happy and loyal customers, to acheive that you must have happy and loyal employees! Something tells me you could never grasp that!
Ho-hum, another self serving lecture from the boss.
So, what's in your interest is right and what's against it is wrong, eh? When the worker bargains as an individual he bargains from a position of weakness but when a union bargains for a group their position is stronger. And that's good for workers and bad for you.
Seeing as you're an employer you really have little to say that's pertinent to worker's interests. It's like asking the KKK what's good for Blacks and Catholics. Whether or not we form unions is really none of your business.
I think it is time for a few union stories of my own.
My grandfather worked for the railroad, he was a coupler, a dangerous and wicked job, and one that was often deadly. He was good at it, and for fifteen years he worked loyally for the company and never missed a day of work. He was a union man and loved his family, his God, his country and worked hard for all of them. When he died between to couplings because of mechanical fault on the railroad, he was covered by an accidental death clause that had been negotiated four years before by the union, prior to that the company paid nothing for a worker's death on the job.
On my first job with a govt contractor, the govt attached their wages to a prevailing wage schedule in the area. Since there was no actual prevailing wage for the jobs we were doing, the contracting officer attached our job classifications to ridiculously low wage scales, for instance, I had five years experience, working on my PHd, and my job was classified as equal to "aerobic trainer" when I was in fact writing courseware for the USAF flight schools. In order to hire a single body,the company needed to be able to raise the salaries, because absolutely no one was answering their advertisements, and in order to raise salaries, we needed to be unionized to have an at arms length negotiation for normal salaries. Why was that? To ensure the revolving door corruption of small businesses being set up by former military and then asking for high wages could be abated. So in this case, the union was the way to ensure the corruption ended.
Should we continue trading stories? TomIrish, Bryan, anyone?
Wrong, typical socialist nonsense, when I, as an employee talk to a prospective employer about my possible employment, I am selling MY skills, talent's, abilities and experience, because they are looking at hiring me as an individual not a group. Every one in the group is not worth the same just because they have a membership to that group. I certainly wouldnt limit myself in that way! You really have very little common sense when it comes to business tom. If business owners actually had the attitude and mentality that you suggest, they wouldnt be in business very long. A profitable business needs happy and loyal customers, to acheive that you must have happy and loyal employees! Something tells me you could never grasp that! Actually you are correct in a sense, some one who could not get the job or keep it on his own would need a union to help secure a job and keep it, so yeah he would be negotiating from a position of weakness, because he is a weak candidate for the job and pay!
Hmm you have a very narrow look at unionization. We negotiated merit pay and bonuses etc that each worker could strive for. And since most of our job classifications had only one or two folks, the whole group never ever got paid the same and no one expected to. Actually, it was harder to get hired with the company, because we negotiated minimum standards of education and skill levels and experience.
Hmm you have a very narrow look at unionization. We negotiated merit pay and bonuses etc that each worker could strive for. And since most of our job classifications had only one or two folks, the whole group never ever got paid the same and no one expected to. Actually, it was harder to get hired with the company, because we negotiated minimum standards of education and skill levels and experience.
A good solid union maintenance mechanic would have had the gear up and running in half the time, worked safer, got paid WAY LESS, than the "specialist"
Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777
Your post makes no sense, go back and read what I was responding to.
Another Union story: I worked for a Union outfit, that did specialized construction all over the country. I was not union, because I did not want to be and I did not do the actual work the company did. My job was buying repairing, building and maintaining the equipment. We had bought a new $250,000.00 piece of specialized equipment, had it delivered to a job site in FL. I would go down to get it set up and do start up. We moved it from FL to a Philadelphia job site. Union there being very strong and unwavering. I was scheduled to go to the job site to do some work on this piece of equipment, (which the guy's lives depended on daily), well word got out amongst the local union hands that the company was bringing in their own Mechanic to work on this piece of equipment, they sent the business agent out and said you cant, you have to hire out of the local hall , the boss said, **** up a rope, this is a specialized piece of equipment , not going to get some joe out of the hall that knows nothing about it. Long story short they threatened to shut the job down costing everyone alot of money unless they did. I ended up going back, but had to pretend that I was actually from the manufacture of the machine and doing warranty work! Just lookin out for the working man!
No a services contract union, but yes, I did like knowing my kids were being taught by teachers with minimum educations. I had a parochial school education and "Because God made it that way" was not a very satisfying answer from my lovely, but very old and very out of touch biology teacher whose education was in reading skills.
Since when would/could a "good solid union maintnance mechanic" get something up and running when he knows zilch about the specially made piece of machinery. Lets see now, you have a 2008 Porsche Dual Turbo 911 Carrera that stopped running so you have a "good solid union maintenance mechanic" who knows beans about the specialized machinery repair it in 1/2 the time. What a ignorant remark. Custom machinerey is just that. CUSTOM. Takes time and studying the functions before touching with any tools. Steve
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