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Old 09-03-2008, 01:27 PM
 
7,778 posts, read 8,126,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukwoo View Post
Since 95% of all health care expenditures occur in the last 6 months of life, we can save enormous amounts of money by simply cutting off health care six months prior to death.





(BTW, the above comment is stated ironically.)
I think the insurers attempt to do that now. Their timing is off is all!
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 82,572,753 times
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Here is an idea that might alleviiate much of the difficulty. A blend of publicly and provately administered insurance plans. Here's how it works.

Every person, from birth, is insured for his entire life, but with a fixed cap. When the person's health care costs exceed that cap, he is no longer covered by the tax-funded universal care plan. This would be a high enough cap that it would pay for a lifetime of routine office calls and minor treatments, plus a couple of major ones, maybe in today's dollars, a cap in the $100K neighborhood. It would cover everything--doctor, hospital, ambulance, even facelifts. But when it's used up, your bare, so few would likely abuse it.

Every person who wants to and can afford it can then go to the private sector, and buy a supplemental policy that will cover catastrophic and/or long-term intensive old-age care, or to kick in if bad luck exhausts the public cap. The poor just get a smaller health insurance coverage, and, as always, a smaller house, and a smaller sailboat.

Basicly, a variety of this already exists in Medicare and Medigap.

The cost and tax burden of such plan would be fairly modest, since a pretty large chunk of health care coss overall are those catastrophic and extended-care coverages. It would guarantee that everybody has basic health maintenance, without breaking the bank. Even if everybody used their entire 100K in their 80-year lifetime, it would still average out to only $1,250 a year, which is about a third of what Americnas are now paying in premiums for insurance, without the option to set a cap and choose a lower priced plan. Existing health plans actually pay only about half the cost of the low-end coverage, after accounting for co-pays and pre-existing conditions and excluded treatments.

Last edited by jtur88; 09-03-2008 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:02 PM
 
4,088 posts, read 5,095,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad View Post
If you don't have insurance..........how are you going to pay for all of this care? Especially if you have a condition such as diabetes.........your method does not work. That's the point. You can't see the doctor if you can't afford to see the doctor.
You miss the point completely. You want somebody else to pay for everything is what I get from your post. I have a terrible condition called "kids in college". Every month I spend a fortune treating it! Maybe the government should have Universal Tuition Coverage also. This condition is really cutting into my golf and tennis budget.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:05 PM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,360,468 times
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85 % of Americans already have health insurance. Most of the ones who don’t choose not to because they are young and don’t think they need it or maybe because they have decided that money spent on a cell phone or new car or a Disney World vacation was a better investment. After all, the US was only second out of 146 countries in household consumption spending.



So we should take the system we have now, with faults because of government meddling and trade it for a socialized system totally under government control that will ration care and stifle any technologic and pharmaceutical advancements.



I guess we should get used to it because it’s inevitable. I hope your kids can pay for all this.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 82,572,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMexicanRepublican View Post
You miss the point completely. You want somebody else to pay for everything is what I get from your post. I have a terrible condition called "kids in college". Every month I spend a fortune treating it! Maybe the government should have Universal Tuition Coverage also. This condition is really cutting into my golf and tennis budget.
You're absolutely right. Most European countries and quite a few others pay in full for college eduation of anyone who continues to show educability. They can afford it. What's wrong with our economy, that we can't? The reason they can afford it is because college education is good for the country, and there, everyone who can benefit the country with a college education gets one. And, every kid who goes to college uinderstands and accepts the fact that when his free education turns into his high-paying degree job, he will help somebody else with theirs first, and then worry about tennis and golf. You have kids in college. Wouldn't you like that? Good, Let's just do it. Oh, no, that would be stealing hard-earned money from people who need custom rims on their SUV, and worked hard to earn them.

Last edited by jtur88; 09-04-2008 at 08:26 PM..
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:05 PM
 
4,088 posts, read 5,095,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You're absolutely right. Most European countries and quite a few others pay in full for college eduation of anyone who continues to show educability.
Hmm.

Tuition is charged at public universities in 18 of 29 European countries; Non-EU students are charged from €1,250 a year in Malta up to €36,000 in Ireland

And the kicker of your post: "continues to show educability".

I am familiar with the German system, having worked with many German families. Despite the socialist nature of Europe, when it comes to education, they are down right tough. Students are tracked from 5th grade depending on how well they score on a series of tough test. At tenth grade, they have to test again to continue with an academic curriculum as opposed to a vocational one. Students have to apply and be accepted to many of the better PUBLIC secondary schools.

Fact: If you do not show aptitude, they do not waste the resources on you. And while the tuition may be considerably less expensive at the college level, it is very competitive. The liberals in the US would never approve of a system that does not allow everybody the chance to attend a STATE sponsored college.

NAACP and ACLU Concerned About New Admissions Standards at Nevada Universities - Chronicle.com

These are just two quick links. Do your own research. I am all for free tuition for those who can pass the appropriate academic bar. I'm just curious how you plan to handle all the excess faculty and staff that will be laid off, as I doubt there are enough qualified students to keep them busy.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 3,207,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMexicanRepublican View Post
1. Take care of yourself. Eat right, exercise every day.

2. Take responsibility for ensuring you see the Dr. at least every couple of years. Don't wait until your foot falls off to see the Dr. about that diabetes problem

3. Choose a PPO plan with a high deductible. Pay for routine care out of your pocket. It will cost you less in the long run.

4. Either better tax credits or stronger patent protection for the development of drugs. It costs millions to billions to develop a drug. Drug companies are for-profit enterprises.

If the country does head towards Universal Care, which I oppose, it should cover only catastrophic or major issues. Everthing else should be out-of-pocket.
I can really agree with number one, people should try and take care of themselves to begin with. Two and three however, Not everyone can afford. My parents for example can hardly afford their insurance, but at their age, they can't risk being without it. The insurance company has them by the short and curlies and the company as well as pretty much every other company knows that damn good and well - they straight know that they have people by the apricots and they use that to make money.

I can see how on the one hand people should be responsible for themselves, but it is as obvious as an elephant in our bathroom that health insurance companies are laughing their way to the bank at the expense of people like my parents.
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 82,572,753 times
Reputation: 36502
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMexicanRepublican View Post
Hmm.

Tuition is charged at public universities in 18 of 29 European countries; Non-EU students are charged from €1,250 a year in Malta up to €36,000 in Ireland

And the kicker of your post: "continues to show educability".

I am familiar with the German system, having worked with many German families. Despite the socialist nature of Europe, when it comes to education, they are down right tough. Students are tracked from 5th grade depending on how well they score on a series of tough test. At tenth grade, they have to test again to continue with an academic curriculum as opposed to a vocational one. Students have to apply and be accepted to many of the better PUBLIC secondary schools.

Fact: If you do not show aptitude, they do not waste the resources on you. And while the tuition may be considerably less expensive at the college level, it is very competitive. The liberals in the US would never approve of a system that does not allow everybody the chance to attend a STATE sponsored college.

NAACP and ACLU Concerned About New Admissions Standards at Nevada Universities - Chronicle.com

These are just two quick links. Do your own research. I am all for free tuition for those who can pass the appropriate academic bar. I'm just curious how you plan to handle all the excess faculty and staff that will be laid off, as I doubt there are enough qualified students to keep them busy.
That leaves 11 of 29 where there is no tuition at all. In many of the others, it is partly subsidized more than in the US, or is lower in the first place.

We are quite accustomed to dealing with the universal cutoff problem when we try to decide who gets somethng and who doesn't. Ninth graders getting cut from the football team are already learning how to handle that.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:11 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
67,178 posts, read 50,185,580 times
Reputation: 37915
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
So my question is...can we fix health care via the free market, and if so, how? Your thoughts

I think the first thing we need is a national movement forcing Congress to vote to eliminate their own health care program. They allegedly work for the people, why should employees have better health care access than their employers?
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:56 AM
 
7,778 posts, read 8,126,185 times
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Often times the issue isn't just about folks having no health insurance. It's the battles the ailing insured must fight. There are many unpleasant scenarios that exist that insurance companies can throw at the insured at the worst time in their lives and you must fight them in order to force them to comply. I've been fighting and scratching my head these last two years fighting two insurance companies to pay up and to recognize my wife's illness in order for her to receive treatment. I know I'm not the only one going through this and my second big fear is we could lose our house if this balancing act crumbles.
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