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It appears that we argue from our knowledge base, but I for one fail to see that we are talking the same language.
Words like, "you liberals," you pro-illegals," "socialism" etc. spark reactions but if they are not presented in a commonly understood language we are not debating but slinging arrows at each other and most often to no avail.
I'm sure we all have dictionaries, or at least access to a language site, and could take a few minutes to look up some expressions and find their meaning. We can and should also look up a reference to share when defending or attacking an issue.
The art of debate is not attack, but discussion. Merely saying, "you _____ are ____," is not constructive.
If the issue at hand is important to you (us) then it should also be important to get the language and the facts more accurate.
I try, and occasionally, fail to make my point, but I try not to debate through intimidation or accusation.
If I did I would be shouting madly, losing my voice, at some of the inane posts that get repeated and repeated--sheer venom!
And, if you are speaking "tongue in cheek" at least put up one of those smilies so we know where you are coming from rather than imagine what you are saying. The subtlety is lost otherwise!
Lets face it, it's a public forum, there is no IQ check at the door.
Politics is an emotional subject so you are going to get some angry responses or people that just want to vent. You mention immigration, Iraq, anything to do with Bush and you are going to get about 4 pages of simplistic posts that say "Bush the chimp lied" or "Mexicans go home" or "you're just a socialist" or something. I've even see moderators do this. No real debate.
I can only mention maybe half a dozen regular posters that bring up real issues and debates on both sides of the political spectrum - you, that hairdresser guy, a few others. The rest just waste bandwidth.
Yup, I am sure you are right! I just still maintain that fatal optimism that folks could learn to engage in civil, and informed discourse.
I'll probably go down fighting!
And thanks for numbering me among the more objective and reasoned. It helps!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
Lets face it, it's a public forum, there is no IQ check at the door.
Politics is an emotional subject so you are going to get some angry responses or people that just want to vent. You mention immigration, Iraq, anything to do with Bush and you are going to get about 4 pages of simplistic posts that say "Bush the chimp lied" or "Mexicans go home" or "you're just a socialist" or something. I've even see moderators do this. No real debate.
I can only mention maybe half a dozen regular posters that bring up real issues and debates on both sides of the political spectrum - you, that hairdresser guy, a few others. The rest just waste bandwidth.
I forget the actual quote, but it's along the lines of "the things family shouldn’t talk about are politics and religion". The reason being you know it will get pretty heated.
So now we get to discuss both with anonymous strangers and so the restraint to hold back by some is eliminated.
Do you suppose we are making up for missed opportunities face-to-face?
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000
I forget the actual quote, but it's along the lines of "the things family shouldn’t talk about are politics and religion". The reason being you know it will get pretty heated.
So now we get to discuss both with anonymous strangers and so the restraint to hold back by some is eliminated.
Do you suppose we are making up for missed opportunities face-to-face?
I'm sure everyone has debated with someone that reminds them of a family member so they get to project that feeling out to the anonymous stranger when they decide to not exercise some restraint.
I will admit to have participated in uncivil dialogue at times. I am one of those that has referred to our commander in cheif as an anthropoid ape. To my defense, that mans brings out an ugly I never thought I had in me. Quasi-racist statements and xenophobia, also raises my blood pressure. However, I will make a concerted effort to improve my civility in future postings.
*PHM...crawls back into the abyss of waste bandwith*
Last edited by PrettyHateMachine; 02-09-2007 at 12:28 PM..
I'm sure everyone has debated with someone that reminds them of a family member so they get to project that feeling out to the anonymous stranger when they decide to not exercise some restraint.
It appears that we argue from our knowledge base, but I for one fail to see that we are talking the same language.
Words like, "you liberals," you pro-illegals," "socialism" etc. spark reactions but if they are not presented in a commonly understood language we are not debating but slinging arrows at each other and most often to no avail.
I'm sure we all have dictionaries, or at least access to a language site, and could take a few minutes to look up some expressions and find their meaning. We can and should also look up a reference to share when defending or attacking an issue.
The art of debate is not attack, but discussion. Merely saying, "you _____ are ____," is not constructive.
If the issue at hand is important to you (us) then it should also be important to get the language and the facts more accurate.
I try, and occasionally, fail to make my point, but I try not to debate through intimidation or accusation.
If I did I would be shouting madly, losing my voice, at some of the inane posts that get repeated and repeated--sheer venom!
And, if you are speaking "tongue in cheek" at least put up one of those smilies so we know where you are coming from rather than imagine what you are saying. The subtlety is lost otherwise!
Can we try to be civil?
Good post! I have to agree with what you've said here!
Politics is synonymous with vainity nowadays. Nobody wants to sincerely learn from the other's point of view. I don't know if it's related to people's I.Q. but i'm sure it plays a big part! Oh well.
When I lived in SF, I was one of "those conservative a--holes.
Now, I'm back in NY. Now, I'm one of those "liberal a--holes."
I just can't win.
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