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I have noticed a lack of consistent support of Hamas by some of the Arab neighbors, in addition to the rift with Fatah:
Saudi Arabia yesterday blamed Hamas for Israel's continuing offensive in the Gaza Strip and urged it to resolve bitter differences with the western-backed Palestinian Authority - even as divisions deepened with a new charge of treachery.
Arab League foreign ministers meeting in emergency session in Cairo warned it was not possible to help until the Islamist movement in control of Gaza returned to national unity talks with its rival Fatah.
A furious Hamas attacked the Arab League stance as "pathetic". Spokesman Fawzi Barhoum also accused Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, of ordering members of Fatah in Gaza to gather intelligence on the whereabouts of Hamas leaders to pass to Israel - a grave charge that underscores the deep rift between the factions.
When you take a look at the fairly constructive relationship Israel has with Egypt and Jordan, along with the "OK" relationships with Saudi Arabia, it makes you wonder if the internal friction within the Palestinian element may be a significant roadblock towards a longterm resolution of problems.
Instead of a "two state solution", perhaps it would make more sense to work towards a "three state solution". If the Fatah element of the Palestinians could work out an agreement with Israel concerning the West Bank area, perhaps they would be better off in letting the Gaza folks work towards their own independent agreement.
In effect, this would create three different countries, each with their own separate government and processes. If Gaza wants to follow the Hamas charter, and continue to work towards the demise of Israel, perhaps Fatah should lead the West Bank to a separate and constructive agreement with Israel, including setting up some initial cooperative economic agreements that could lead towards a relationship currently existing between Israel and Egypt and Jordan.
Taking some of the tension off of the current friction and moving forward would seem to be in the best interest of the majority of citizens in the area. At least this is how it looks to me.
I think there are a LOT of states in the middle-east that would like to see hamas go away. They are nothing but troublemakers and murderers.
I think Abbas can broker a peace with Israel - notice Fatah is not coming to Hamas' aid, and neither is Hezbollah.
When Hamas took control of gaza, I thought it was perfect opportunity for Abbas and the WB palestinians to step forward and offer a more moderate partner to Israel. We can support the palestinians in the WB, as long as they forego violence and terrorists acts and seek a lasting peace with Israel.
Hamas has been able to sidestep the world-wide blockade by using their tunnels to smuggle goods and weapons from Egypt. Most of those tunnels are no more.
The sqeeze will be on now - and the residents will have to make a choice. Stick with Hamas and die or throw the bums out and seek peace.
It appears to me that Hamas is also playing to get an expanded role in the West Bank. If the West Bank Arabs decided to proceed without Gaza, perhaps this would weaken the vulnerability Fatah faces in the continuing pressure from Hamas, and would allow them to establish the agreement with Israel. This would allow them to not have to consider the Gaza issues, and maybe they can bring some closure and move forward.
I don't think the real problem is West Bank or Gaza. I think the problem is Hamas. But as it happens, they presently control 76 of the 132 seats in the Gaza parliament. If the people living in Gaza were to start insisting on things like economic/industrial/agricultural development, housing, education, and so on, and all the Hamas-controlled parliament wanted to do was wage war on Israel, then let the people vote them out the same way they voted 'em in.
I'm sure that Israel would be willing to form just as constructive an arrangement with a legitimate government in Gaza as it has with Jordan and Egypt.
No. The answer is a one state solution--bring all the territories under Israel and give equal rights (voting, etc.) to all who live there, in a multi-ethnic state. The idea of suddenly creating a Jewish state and keeping it "pure" might have made sense when it was hatched in the 19th century but it's completely unworkable in the long run without resorting to apartheid-type policies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA
I have noticed a lack of consistent support of Hamas by some of the Arab neighbors, in addition to the rift with Fatah:
Saudi Arabia yesterday blamed Hamas for Israel's continuing offensive in the Gaza Strip and urged it to resolve bitter differences with the western-backed Palestinian Authority - even as divisions deepened with a new charge of treachery.
Arab League foreign ministers meeting in emergency session in Cairo warned it was not possible to help until the Islamist movement in control of Gaza returned to national unity talks with its rival Fatah.
A furious Hamas attacked the Arab League stance as "pathetic". Spokesman Fawzi Barhoum also accused Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, of ordering members of Fatah in Gaza to gather intelligence on the whereabouts of Hamas leaders to pass to Israel - a grave charge that underscores the deep rift between the factions.
When you take a look at the fairly constructive relationship Israel has with Egypt and Jordan, along with the "OK" relationships with Saudi Arabia, it makes you wonder if the internal friction within the Palestinian element may be a significant roadblock towards a longterm resolution of problems.
Instead of a "two state solution", perhaps it would make more sense to work towards a "three state solution". If the Fatah element of the Palestinians could work out an agreement with Israel concerning the West Bank area, perhaps they would be better off in letting the Gaza folks work towards their own independent agreement.
In effect, this would create three different countries, each with their own separate government and processes. If Gaza wants to follow the Hamas charter, and continue to work towards the demise of Israel, perhaps Fatah should lead the West Bank to a separate and constructive agreement with Israel, including setting up some initial cooperative economic agreements that could lead towards a relationship currently existing between Israel and Egypt and Jordan.
Taking some of the tension off of the current friction and moving forward would seem to be in the best interest of the majority of citizens in the area. At least this is how it looks to me.
No. The answer is a one state solution--bring all the territories under Israel and give equal rights (voting, etc.) to all who live there, in a multi-ethnic state. The idea of suddenly creating a Jewish state and keeping it "pure" might have made sense when it was hatched in the 19th century but it's completely unworkable in the long run without resorting to apartheid-type policies.
I was looking for a way to make progress in the stalemate and reduce tensions, I doubt if all of the parties would see this as a workable solution.
No. The answer is a one state solution--bring all the territories under Israel and give equal rights (voting, etc.) to all who live there, in a multi-ethnic state.
Nothing more than another was to force Israel to cede their borders to the palestinians.
No. The answer is a one state solution--bring all the territories under Israel and give equal rights (voting, etc.) to all who live there, in a multi-ethnic state. The idea of suddenly creating a Jewish state and keeping it "pure" might have made sense when it was hatched in the 19th century but it's completely unworkable in the long run without resorting to apartheid-type policies.
No matter how well intentioned you may have been in advancing this proposal, the fact remains that it's quite a distance from anything resembling reality. The only thing it would accomplish is creating even more tension and hostility in the region than there already is. Haven't run into the person who wants to see that!
I don't think a three state solution is any more viable than two state.
There are many intractable problems with a 2 state solution. Many or most of the settlers are very obstreporous and would be difficult to move out of the West Bank (Gaza had no religious significance to them and they were difficult to remove from there--imagine trying to remove them from the West bank). The majority of Israelis don't like them and they might cause tensions once they're relocated back into Israel, if they start causing trouble. Not only is there the cost of moving them, but a lot of the housing they leave behind will have to be torn down and rebuilt (the settler homes generally don't make good use of space and resources and are not suitable homes for large Palestinian families--this was a problem when they left Gaza). So there is an enormous cost. (maybe the US will end up paying for all of this)
In addition, it's not clear that two (or three) countries carved out of an area the size of New Jersey can share scarce water resources without starting to fight again. Then there are issues with airspace. And how to cross between Gaza and the West Bank--is Israel going to control that passage?
That's why I think the one state solution is the best. The original Zionists didn't want a Jewish state anyway--just more of a jewish presence in Palestine. Israel didn't even care that much about Jerusalem until after the Six Day War -- so there isn't much depth behind the "eternal undivided capital" claims.
Most of all, I think that if the US and Israel had really wanted the 2 state solution it would have happened years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA
I was looking for a way to make progress in the stalemate and reduce tensions, I doubt if all of the parties would see this as a workable solution.
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