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Wow...just....wow.....I'll remember not to mention Lincoln when I'm down South.
Slavery was a factor. The immediate reason the southern states wanted to secede (sorry..rebel) was due to "states' rights". That is true. But the rights in queston were the right to own people because they were black. To right to strip them of basic human dignity. The rights of planters to rape slave girls and to whip them within an inch of their lives. To break up families and sell them down river to make a profit. Not all slaveholders did this, I know. But this was condoned in southern society, and it's sick. That's what the southern elite wanted--and they convinced the poor whites (the ones who actually fought in the war) that it was in their best interests as well. I feel sorry for them as well.
And frankly, forming your own country so you can have the right to commit crimes against humanity ISN'T a valid reason to secede. The Confederacy took up arms against the United States when they decided to seize the Govt. run forts (like Ft. Sumter). Lincoln, as president, had the duty to defend government property. In any other country that would be considered treason--and rightly so. Chase was wrong on that point.
I guess there's no point convincing people that they're wrong, even a century and a half later <<shrug>> Lincoln is still a great American, among the greatest, and he will always be seen as such. Deal with it. He knew what America really stood for--for people to be free from bondage, a strong union of by and for the people--not the oligarchical, racist, rigid class system that the South had. No no no....The southerners of that day, those who supported the Rebellion, had no clue what America really stood for.
Again, that was less than 1% of the residents here that owned slaves...guess what, there were also freed blacks that lived in the South then too...The southern states did exactly what the original colonies did to England, and that is what Thomas Jefferson said should happen if they aren't being represented properly...BTW, this isn't just the opinion of southerners, but anyone who truly believes the constitution is the law of the land and shouldn't be trampled on can see how wrong Lincoln was.
I don't condone those rednecks down here that think they still should be fighting the civil war, but, I am just pointing out the real history of what happened, and don't think of Lincoln as the hero that most of you seem to. He saved the union by usurping the constitution and ever sense then, the power of our Federal Gov't has increased, and has enslaved us all.
Thanks for the apples and oranges. There is n o footing because the wording is direct when it comes to war. Therefore those loose ties don't apply.
Yes, it was somewhat apples and oranges. It was about a contract between the State of California and the Social Security Administration (SSA).
In 1983, the state of Alaska mailed its cancellation notice to the SSA effectively cancelling it's agreement to withhold and pay over Social Security Taxes to the Federal Government.
To this day Alaska does not withhold Social Security Taxes from any State employees or employees of its political subdivisions, i.e., Counties, Cities, or School Districts.
HISTORY
In 1943, FDR began withholding SS and Income Tax from all wage earners employed in the private sector to fund the war effort, promising to stop the practice after Japan and Germany had been defeated.
After the war, the Feds wanted to do what they couldn't do during the war - force all State governments to also withhold from their employees like the private sector was forced to do.
Because of that gosh-awful 10th Amendment Thingy, the Feds could not use force against States because they were Sovereigns under the 10th Amendment.
So, between 1946 and 1954, the SSA and IRS approached each State asking them to voluntarily agree to withhold like the private sector was forced to do. Can you image Alabama signing that kind of agreement?
So Salesman Sam said to the States something like the following:
"Well Suh, we'll let you States hold onto and invest all them thar withholdings for a full year before you have to hand it over to us - and that will make you rich. On top of that, if'n you're still paranoid about dealing with what you refer to as Government skonks, lookee here at this cancellation provision. It says right chere that either party can, for any reason, cancel this here agreement by giving the other party two years written notice. So what's there to be sceerd of?"
All but four states signed these 218 agreements between 1946 and 1954.
The only one I remember that didn't was Maine.
Anyway, apples and oranges is that this situation involved a contract under COLOR OF LAW - and the 10th Amendment involves a Constitutional Right, which is actual LAW. And this law of the land allows secession.
Why...lol...Everything he stands for is opposite of what Lincoln stood for..hmmm
Really easy..heres a quote from Lincoln "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves".
Seems sort of scary because Obumer and Nut Pelosi/Reid and friends are trying there best to stick Goverment in EVERYTHING right now.
The left just doesnt get it !
Great quote since he took so many freedoms away by suspending the constitutionally protected right of Habeas Corpus, and imprisone thousands of northern citizens w/out charge. He is the one that took away many freedoms.
I agree w/ you about Pelosi/Reid/Obama now.
Slavery was a factor. The immediate reason the southern states wanted to secede (sorry..rebel) was due to "states' rights". That is true. But the rights in queston were the right to own people because they were black. To right to strip them of basic human dignity. The rights of planters to rape slave girls and to whip them within an inch of their lives. To break up families and sell them down river to make a profit. Not all slaveholders did this, I know. But this was condoned in southern society, and it's sick. That's what the southern elite wanted--and they convinced the poor whites (the ones who actually fought in the war) that it was in their best interests as well. I feel sorry for them as well.
Slavery was as old as time itself; it is hard to look back and find a nation or empire that did not engage in slavery. So per your standards, everyone on Earth prior to abolition regularly committed crimes against humanity.
Instead of projecting 21st century ideals onto the 19th century, how about putting yourself in their shoes? What exactly are you going to do with hundreds of thousands of freed slaves with no money, no jobs, nothing to their name? Keep in mind that poor Whites were already competing for what few jobs existed, and most were simply subsistence farmers. That does not go over well adding thousands more to the unemployment line..
Without agriculture, the South had nothing. After the war, it would be almost 100 years before the South could ever pull out of the permanent economic depression brought on by the Civil War.
After the Civil War, Northern 'robber barons' lead the way for Corporatism in America. Lincoln had ties with extremely influential businessmen, during (and after) the war, they became extremely wealthy.. Kind of makes you wonder what Lincoln's true intentions were... The South saw what was coming, and didn't want any part of it.. But with that failure came the Gilded Age and the corruption that followed.
But who cares, right? Everyone seems to be set on their own mindset, and there is not a chance in hell I can change that.. Why even waste my time on such a thing..?
Yes, it was somewhat apples and oranges. It was about a contract between the State of California and the Social Security Administration (SSA).
In 1983, the state of Alaska mailed its cancellation notice to the SSA effectively cancelling it's agreement to withhold and pay over Social Security Taxes to the Federal Government.
To this day Alaska does not withhold Social Security Taxes from any State employees or employees of its political subdivisions, i.e., Counties, Cities, or School Districts.
HISTORY
In 1943, FDR began withholding SS and Income Tax from all wage earners employed in the private sector to fund the war effort, promising to stop the practice after Japan and Germany had been defeated.
After the war, the Feds wanted to do what they couldn't do during the war - force all State governments to withhold from their employees like the private sector was forced to do.
Because of that gosh-awful 10th Amendment Thingy, the Feds could not use force against States because they were Sovereigns under the 10th Amendment.
So, between 1946 and 1954, the SSA and IRS approached each State asking them to voluntarily agree to withhold like the private sector was forced to do. Can you image Alabama signing that kind of agreement?
So Salesman Sam said to the States something like the following:
"Well Suh, we'll let you States hold onto and invest all them thar withholdings for a full year before you have to hand it over to us - and that will make you rich. On top of that, if'n you're still paranoid about dealing with what you refer to as Government skonks, lookee here at this cancellation provision. It says right chere that either party can, for any reason, cancel this here agreement by giving the other party two years written notice. So what's there to be sceerd of?"
All but four states signed these 218 agreements between 1946 and 1954.
The only one I remember that didn't was Maine.
Anyway, apples and oranges is that this situation involved a contract under COLOR OF LAW - and the 10th Amendment involves a Constitutional Right, which is actual LAW. And this law of the land allows secession.
The constitution is very clear. You can see there is very clear wording on this subject! I showed you before that was an act prohibited and therefore the 10th Amendment doesn't apply.
Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791.Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The constitution is very clear. You can see there is very clear wording on this subject! I showed you before that was an act prohibited and therefore the 10th Amendment doesn't apply.
Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791.Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
You mean, the 10th Amendment has been amended?!?? It would take a 2/3 vote of Congress to do so.
You mean, the 10th Amendment has been amended?!?? It would take a 2/3 vote of Congress to do so.
No I mean that in its wording it does not aply to direct powers or prohibitions. Social security is not directly refered to in the constitution therfore is a gray area, what we are talking about is refered to and is not a gray area, its treason.
No I mean that in its wording it does not aply to direct powers or prohibitions. Social security is not directly refered to in the constitution therfore is a gray area, what we are talking about is refered to and is not a gray area, its treason.
The punishment for treason is hanging.
Were any of the Southern States ever hung?
The 10th Amendment IS very clear. It guarantees the right of any State to do anything not specifically prohibited the the Constitution.
Where is this specific prohibition against secession that you speak of?
Why...lol...Everything he stands for is opposite of what Lincoln stood for..hmmm
Really easy..heres a quote from Lincoln "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves".
Seems sort of scary because Obumer and Nut Pelosi/Reid and friends are trying there best to stick Goverment in EVERYTHING right now.
The left just doesnt get it !
Ridiculous. You're the kind of person who would hate Obama no matter what he did.
Government grew at unprecedented rates under Bush. But I bet you voted for him, didn't you? And now, unable to face your error, you want to blame Obama. Business-as-usual for the gutless right-wing.
The 10th Amendment IS very clear. It guarantees the right of any State to do anything not specifically prohibited the the Constitution.
Where is this specific prohibition against secession that you speak of?
Anything but gold or silver coin?
You are cherry picking to serve you argument. Sucession is treason and no treason is not a mandatory hanging. No one was hung in an effort to heal the nation.
Section 3 - TreasonNote Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted
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