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In the past year, I've noticed a major difference between Democrats and Republicans: Republicans think that the rich are critical because they provide the jobs for the middle class. The Democrats think that the middle class is more important because they buy the things that the rich produce. So Dems want to help the middle class, and Republicans would rather help the rich. There's a good case to be made for both sides, but I wanted to start a thread to see what everyone else thought.
Soooooo.....
Who should get more help? The Rich, the Middle Class, or both?
Who is more important to the advancement of the economy and society?The Rich, the Middle Class, or both?
The issue is if the Middle Class dissappears there is a real negative power shift.
Look at this forum, people are bitching that rich people pay taxes. Do you know why this is happening? It's because the middle class is shrinking. If the middle class has a wider base then the burden can be shared between everyone. If the income gap increases then the rich will whine about having to pay taxes for the poor even though they make their wealth off of their backs.
All I can really say is that when the middle class had a wider base this country was in much better shape. Also situations where stuff is provided and people buy is how you get a heavily debt based economies that eventually collapse. If there is actual demand and a product is provided to aid that demand there is less debt floating around. My two cents.
One of the reasons why American households have increased the amount of personal debt was that they were working harder, earning less but still trying to maintain a middle class life style. Foolish, perhaps but understandable. Home equity was the new savings (for a hilarious send up of the kind of financial advice the American people were getting, see John Stewart).
As for the rich, well the great scam on that is these are your dad's corporations. The object of most is not the production of products but the short term amassing of profit, even if that means eviscerating the very companies that they control.
So who is fueling the engine of the American economy, 70% of which is fueled by consumer spending, the ever vanishing middle class. So when I think of who acts as the greatest creators of wealth, my vote goes to those who spend the most, and it ain't the "rich".
Very good post. I agree with a good deal of what you've said.
I do think the above quoted point is pretty debateable, however. The modern day middle class has been defined those with incomes between 25k and 75k. When you scale to inflation, there is a shrinking middle class....but only in a move towards the upper-class.
Quote:
Over the past two decades, the number of households in those brackets (25k-75k) decreased by 3.9%, from 48.2% to 44.3%. During the same time period, the number of households with incomes below $25,000 decreased 3.5%, from 28.7% to 25.2%, while the number of households with incomes above $75,000 increased over 7%, from 23.2% to 30.4%
So there's been a bit of upward mobility.
Another factor in this equation is that the average size of a home increased from about 1,900 sq feet 20-something years ago to over 2,400 now. Thus, the price of housing has gone up, and living in a middle class neighborhood hasn't necessarily been an option for those in the lower middle class.
We also have growing numbers in poverty. Granted, the defintion of poverty has changed over time. And what we call impovereished would be pretty middle class in a number of places around the world. Some of this is natural. I think when you begin to compare the level of education needed today to climb the social ladder, it's only natural you'd see an increase in poverty. It's arguable that performance has not held steady, either, as SAT scores, for instance, have decreased over time.
Who you think is more important is a matter of perspective and opinion. If you agree with the basic ground rules of the founding fathers, you'd probably think the middle class was more so.
All classes are important and rely on each other more than many care to admit.
The rich sometimes want to feel they are more important to the economy with their spending and giving jobs to middle/lower classes.
If there weren't middle class and lower class people to take the jobs and provide the services they do- the lifestyle of the rich would be completely changed. How could they manage without gardeners, hairstylists, waiters, secretaries, police, military, firemen, garbage men, store clerks, seamstresses etc.
Personally I don't feel the rich should be upset by paying a bit more tax- they should appreciate all that those not as fortunate do to keep their lives better. (Just like one shouldn't mind at all paying a waitress a really nice tip- for the service.)
In the same way those who don't appreciate the rich and even laugh at them losing their money on Wallstreet- should think about all the generous things the rich do. The charities are hurting right now- because many of their big supporters lost their money and can't afford to back them.
Very good post. I think when you begin to compare the level of education needed today to climb the social ladder, it's only natural you'd see an increase in poverty. It's arguable that performance has not held steady, either, as SAT scores, for instance, have decreased over time.
Tough call...
This is why the middle class is shrinking also. The people who want to base everything on education dont understand that not everyone is on the same level.
My step dad is not the brightest fellow but he is very good with his hands and is a hard worker. He is retired now with a good pension.
These days this is probably no longer possible. Why because someone decided that someone who works hard but doesnt have a bachelors degree is some how not worthy of a middle class life style.
What does the person with the degree provide? Do they create anything? Sure some do but dont tell me some marketing manager or what ever is actually somehow more worthy of a cetain lifestyle than someone who is actually creating, building, or repairing something.
As for the rich, well the great scam on that is these are your dad's corporations. The object of most is not the production of products but the short term amassing of profit, even if that means eviscerating the very companies that they control.
Profitability is the sole means of measuting the wealth of any corporation, which by definition is owned, or incorporated, by its stockholders. I share your frustration at the abandonment of product quality and innovation by corporate managers, but I would argue that it is the fault of the stockholders and boards of directors, rather than the admittedly greed-sick MBAs in charge, that so many companies are on the verge of collapse.
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So who is fueling the engine of the American economy, 70% of which is fueled by consumer spending, the ever vanishing middle class. So when I think of who acts as the greatest creators of wealth, my vote goes to those who spend the most, and it ain't the "rich".
You ignore that percentage of wealth which consists of stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. You make the point convincingly that actual production is no longer the goal of many corporations, but I think you would also agree that rampant consumerism is at the root of our current crisis of over-borrowing and under-saving, and that the middle class, no less than the wealthiest among us, are guilty of the collective downward spiral we find ourselves in?
Consumer spending creates false wealth. It's the crack our economy has been smoking for lo these last few decades.
It's time for America to go cold turkey on the shpping spree -- as soon as we've hung up a few hundred CEO's by their balls, that is.
Every society with a well situated middle class have a good infrastructure, is overall wealthy, but not too rich, have a low gap between the higher and the upper middle class and in general between the rich and the poor, have little crime ...
In america always the middle class was dangered by the "big buisiness", though the economy is based on it.
In my state Germany the middle class is the alpha and the omega for the economic situation. If it´s melting down, the welfare state also will ... I´m afraid that this process already is on the run
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