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Old 03-13-2009, 09:46 AM
 
490 posts, read 1,434,260 times
Reputation: 151

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I went to school in Texas and I work in the education system in Texas. I think some schools districts are better than others, but I feel we could have a much more enriched curriculum if there was not so much pressure to get high test scores.

As for other states, I have no idea how their public education is, but I will agree that Texas has a no BS attitude!
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth
358 posts, read 472,426 times
Reputation: 162
This is a repost, but it needs to be here too. I am a Texan:
I would like to add, the comments about the TAKS test is on target made earlier. Getting out of the way of teachers and letting them teach would do great things for teaching and learning in Texas. By no means does that negate any of the statements below, we do need to pay more, demand more and spend more and fire more. Good teachers will and would support the below, remember the good teachers have to clean up behind bad teachers.
================================================== ================================================== ============

OK,

You guys want to know what is needed to square away our schools. Nothing if we had quality parents, but that aint gonna happen, so here goes.

First, changes need to be made to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers, after a additional effort is made to save them. Teacher get hired, get by, needs help and there is none. The befrazzeled Principle, even if he/she has a VP is spread so thin that building a case in next to impossible with all the student-parent driven issues that command priority. This inept teacher just stays there and gets in enough time it makes it very hard to fire her/him.

Many schools have up to 70 teachers 850 students (elementary) and only a principal. Just how in the hell can you supervise 70 employees, not to mention caferteria staff, office staff, custotial staff and so forth? So before any of you cuss administrators think about private industry and show me an industry that has a ratio of boss to employee with nothing in between of 70 to one, 35 to one.

Next we need to start teachers in this bad economy at between $55 and 65k. Make the job pay and the good ones will come, and they will fight to keep the job. You get what you pay for. This would be an easy tradeoff between the Unions and Associations for more freedom of administrators to terminate.

Next, large school districts should have "storm troopers" that are administrators to come in to a troubled school and assist the existing administrative staff solve problems, up to and including multiple terminations, and adminstrators not be off limits. For real troubled schools they may be needed for a full year, but all schools in the district should have these people inside at least 6 weeks for evauation purposes every few years.

Next, it needs to be easier to deal with problem students, parent objections not withstanding. If little Johnny is an ass then give him a vaccination he will not forget or put him in an alternative school until he is broke. 3% of the kids should not stop the learning process and rob 70% of a teachers time. Normal, well behaved kids that want to learn have rights too.

Until this country ante's up the money necessary to fund public schools properly, you are going to see more of the same.

BTW, My wife was a Principal for 3 years, she ask to go back to the classroom. Miserable job, 675 or so students, 60 teachers and staff, less than worthless VP and her going back was the best 10-15k per year we ever lost. She is not as hard as I am, I could have handled it. That VP would have cried all day, cried herself to sleep, and woke up crying and drove to work with depression and dread while working for me until she found a way out. I can pick a fight and I can damn sure make someone's life miserable. Hell, I have done that for bad bosses, much less subordinatess

So there you have it, I think if these changes were implimented then our public schools would recover to be the worlds envy in just a few years.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:01 PM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,468,632 times
Reputation: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
public schools wont change. no matter how good the principle and teacher, a dozen gangbangers can shut down a school. the schools are rabid with thugs and our disfunctional justice system will not remove them. shut down the schools voucher now.
If nothing else, it sure is entertaining to read your posts.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:04 PM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,468,632 times
Reputation: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Horse View Post
OK,

You guys want to know what is needed to square away our schools. Nothing if we had quality parents,

No need to read another word, you nailed it in the first sentence.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth
358 posts, read 472,426 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
Schools are failing because everything Liberal is a failure by design.
Give it a rest, to hear you conservatives tell it EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD IS A LIBERALS FAULT. World hunger, liberals, High birthrate in Africa..Liberals. Sun Spots-Liberals, Yeper liberals, liberals, liberals, liberals.

Permissive atmosphere in school does not = liberal it ='s stupid. When things get out of balance they seem to fail, whether too conservative or too liberal and liberal does not equate stupid.

Looking at the behaviour of conservatives in DC right now is a perfect example of stupid.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,544,683 times
Reputation: 24780
After all these years of standardized testing, do any of you know what the only valid analysis has revealed?
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:41 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
After all these years of standardized testing, do any of you know what the only valid analysis has revealed?
Yeah... our public school systems are FAR worse than most people realize.

Nationwide, student achievement is actually much lower than most people think. Each state's education officials establish their own state standards, commission/construct their own tests, and set their own 'passing' scores. This has resulted in manipulations that make it look like public schools are educating our children, when in reality the majority of students in many states are far below acceptable levels of proficiency. In some cases, there's as much as a 70 percentage point difference in proficiency levels between state achievement tests and the NAEP (National Assessment of Educational Progress) tests. Not one state listed in the chart below educates even half of their students to grade-level proficiency on the NAEP.

If you want to see your (or any other) state's reported proficiency level vs. the NAEP proficiency level (to see if your public schools are being honest about providing an adequate education), check here:
NAEP Researchcenter - NAEP and State Equivalent Percent Table
For each grade level, the first column lists the percentage of students scoring as proficient (meets or exceeds state standards) on the state test; the second column lists the percentage of students scoring as proficient on the NAEP (National test).

Keep in mind that these comparisons were made after NCLB was enacted, when schools knew that they had to improve their academic performance - and we're still educating less than half of the nation's students to grade-level proficiency.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:53 PM
 
490 posts, read 1,434,260 times
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NCLB did nothing to help the situation.

Sadly, I really do not see any politician making the change that will improve things.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,544,683 times
Reputation: 24780
Test scores reveal the obvious: every public school performs as well as the demographic it serves.

Anyone expecting schools to perform miracle transformations with substandard raw material is living in a dream world.

America: it's past time to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,274,487 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Test scores reveal the obvious: every public school performs as well as the demographic it serves.

Anyone expecting schools to perform miracle transformations with substandard raw material is living in a dream world.

America: it's past time to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
You just pounded three nails clear through the board. It all starts and ends with the parents that are involved and what they really want and too often that depends on demographics.

Another thing that has to be done as soon as possible is to take recalcitrants out of the regular classes since few of them care at all about school. Put them all in the same rooms and let them beat on each other but don't let them take away from the learning time of those who want to learn.

We need to get away from main streaming any and all special ed students. They tend to slow down others and get buried in the place themselves. Things have surely changed since that main lining started.
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