Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The stories aren't all that easy to find, because the media tends to not report it when it happens, but they're out there. I've come across a site or two that aggregates the articles, but I never bookmarked them and I really don't care enough to go find them right now. The three incidents I linked above I was able to find in less than five minutes - I'm sure many more can be found if you are genuinely interested in the subject and know how to use Google.
Then how come "legal gun owners" haven't been stopping "said lunatics" (many with gun licenses themselves)...?
Not counting the church shooting above, these usually happen in businesses. Most businesses have policies against carrying on the premises. I am not allowed to even have a gun in my car if I parked in my company parking lot. I'm sure the 60 year old, over weight, un-armed security guard was enough to keep me safe.
It has also been pointed out that the media doesn't like to cover these stories. Though the local media did cover one last year where a son captured the man that car-jacked his eldery mother. This capture led to the capture of his accomplice as well. Both men are now residents of the state for the next 20 years. This man would have never been able to accomplish this without being legally armed as the perp was armed as well.
Then how come "legal gun owners" haven't been stopping "said lunatics" (many with gun licenses themselves)...?
I don't own a gun, never have and don't plan to but, I support people having the right to bear arms. I don't understand why some legislators every so often have to start talking about control as if it's actually posssible and getting all the resposible gun owners in the country all fired (no pun intended) up....because they're the only ones that bother to pay any attention to it in the first place. If you're in favor of gun control, the NRA should be someone to make friends with if you want it to ever happen.
People often cite a recent incident some place, where someone went crazy with a gun and killed a bunch of people, as a reason for needing gun control. It's terrible when something like that happens but, you have to remember, we live in a country with 305 million people now and that one incident makes national and even international news when it does happen.
What you don't hear about and can not really calculate, is the number of lives each day (even each hour) that are saved because of guns. Someone recently asked me this question, how many lives did I think guns saved each year....I've never heard it asked before. I don't know if gun owners use it to make their care (I would imagine some do) but, it's a good point, even though it doesn't sound right. How many times each day does a gun stop someone from using a gun (or any weapon for that matter) to kill or wound someone else. Just the fact that someone is armed and others know it, can save a life and/or prevent a crime from happening and although this happens many times every day in our country, it's not something that you'll read or hear about on the news.
I've always thought gun control to be a bad idea for other reasons. The only people that will adhere to it are the law abiding citizens and not the criminals. In addition, depending upon how tight the controls are, it may drastically increase gun smuggling so, not only would criminals still be able to get guns, there would be a lot more criminals getting into the gun smuggling business to make money with all the demand that there would be.
The other reason I'm against it is that I would think if single shot or semi-automatic guns were controlled/banned in some way and criminals had to go to go to a gun smuggler to obtain a gun, why would they bother to get anything other than a fully automatic weapon at that point. Automatic weapons have been illegal since the days of John Dillinger and Bonnie & Clyde and although the police confiscate them all the time from criminals (which carries a penalty), using one, is a very heavy penalty (in some states a minimum 25 years to life, just for using it to commit a crime).
If guns are banned/controlled, using a single shot or semi-automatic waepon to commit a crime will also have penalties (similar but, maybe not quite as severe). That won't make a difference to a criminal (how heavy a penalty will be if they get caught), if they have to get a gun on the black market, other than affordability being a factor, I can't see why they wouldn't go straight to an automatic weapon (especially since many or most of their brothers in crime will have one).
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,458,803 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
It has also been pointed out that the media doesn't like to cover these stories.
So apparently "the media" is responsible for "bias" and not covering the "right" stories, but it's not responsible when it openly inflames right wing causes.... how does that work?
Even granting the dubious "preventive" value of "legal gun owners", the simple fact remains that an awful lot of innocent men, women and children are now dead as a result of random massacres by gun nuts (often possessing gun licenses).
So what do we do, wait 'til they murder someone to determine they're unfit to own a weapon?
So, in case you haven't noticed, people have lately been going around killing people, indiscriminately. Is this because Fox News is sending their hypnobeams into America's brainpan through the lunatic ravings of Glenn Beck and the Michele Bachmann-boosting tyranny pillow-talk of Sean Hannity? I don't know! Maybe. That stuff mostly fills me with either humor or pity. Then I make some tacos, drink some Jim Beam, everything's OK again.
But CNN's Rick Sanchez notes the rise of Fox style crazyfaced paranoia and the uptick in gun violence, and feels that there's a connection worth exploring. Which he does by...SCARING THE BEJEEZUS OUT OF EVERYONE! Terrifying music! Scary YouTubes! Breathless, unproveable pronouncements!
A cop-killer was "convinced, no doubt because of Fox News...that our rights were being infringed upon. That's according to a friend" of the killer. LOTS OF GREAT SOURCING AND CERTAINTY, THERE! Is there any truth to the notion that Fox is inexorably driving people crazy? It's an "apparent result," Sanchez says. Sounds ironclad!
So apparently "the media" is responsible for "bias" and not covering the "right" stories, but it's not responsible when it openly inflames right wing causes.... how does that work?
From my own experience of watching and reading local news, crime gets top billing from both the paper and the television news. I have yet to see where a resident stopped a home invasion and it made the lead story on the 10 o'clock news. It may get 30 seconds to a minute of air time later in the broadcast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45
Even granting the dubious "preventive" value of "legal gun owners", the simple fact remains that an awful lot of innocent men, women and children are now dead as a result of random massacres by gun nuts (often possessing gun licenses).
Nuts with guns. There is a difference. I consider myself a gun enthusiast due to my collection and I have even referred to myself as a 'gun nut' in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45
So what do we do, wait 'til they murder someone to determine they're unfit to own a weapon?
There is a thing in our judicial system called innocent until proven guilty. Our freedom is based assuming that there is good in everyone until proven otherwise.
More kids die by drowning in swimming pools every year than die at the wrong end of a gun. No one wants to ban pools 'for the safety of the kids' because drownings are a very small percentage based on the number of kids that swim every year. I don't like to swim but I'm not anti-pool. I can see where millions of others get enjoyment as well as health benefits (exercise) from them.
Turning the tables you shouldn't try to ban something that I like to do just because you don't want to participate in it. I find shooting very relaxing. A long shot takes heavy concentration and controlled breathing. You have to know your ballistics tables as well as the physics behind what can change the trajectory of a bullet. Handgun training is exciting a fast paced. And the biggest benefit of all is that I know I can protect myself, my family and if it came down to it, a complete stranger if I needed to.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,458,803 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
There is a thing in our judicial system called innocent until proven guilty. Our freedom is based assuming that there is good in everyone until proven otherwise.
More kids die by drowning in swimming pools every year than die at the wrong end of a gun. No one wants to ban pools 'for the safety of the kids' because drownings are a very small percentage based on the number of kids that swim every year. I don't like to swim but I'm not anti-pool. I can see where millions of others get enjoyment as well as health benefits (exercise) from them.
Turning the tables you shouldn't try to ban something that I like to do just because you don't want to participate in it.
Not talking about "banning", just some common sense regulations that even most police departments advocate. We don't allow just anybody to pilot a car or plane and endanger others, which is why we have robust licensing, tests, insurance, etc..... why any less with firearms?
Understood re: the difference between "enthusiast" and "gun nut", but don't all rights have responsibilities? When hundreds of innocent people are being murdered, how can anyone callously respond to that with only "me, me, me" and "my rights, my rights", without being regarded as a "nut" (if not a cold-blooded psychopath)?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
