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New Mexico doesn't surprise me... they have Los Alamos and other government sponsored labs. Plus, they're small in population (~1-2 million).
New Mexico is also one of the poorest states in the nation ... I believe right behind Mississippi in terms of people living below the poverty line. Therefore, lots of people are "qualified" to receive federal benefits simply for being poor. Of course, we all know that the more money people receive from the government, the more lazy and unproductive they tend to be.
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Originally Posted by runningncircles1
Alaska has oil fields and wildlife preserves, and again, a small populace (~700K) to pay taxes out. No surprise there.
True. Don't forget Sara Palin and her abuse of taxpayer money for sending her rugrats on government funded business trips with her.
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Originally Posted by runningncircles1
Louisiana is poor, and they had that giant hurricane there. They have all those FEMA trailors and federal aid (and the bureaucracy that comes with it).
Again, as much federal money as Louisiana has received as the result of Katrina, how much better are they now? From what I understand, very little has improved in Louisiana since 2005!
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Originally Posted by runningncircles1
Virginia has NoVA. That contains the CIA, the Pentagon, field offices for various GSEs and agencies, etc.. Again, no surprise there.
Yes, and all those agencies are really just spillovers from Washington, DC. The District of Columbia encompasses a small land mass. With the size of the federal government being as enormous as it is, there isn't any way all of the DC based government agencies could possibly fit in DC alone!
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Originally Posted by runningncircles1
The Dakotas get farm subsidies. So do WV, Kentucky, and parts of Mississippi. There are a lot of unemployed there, too, so no surprise.
Included in those farm subsidies has been government payments to farmers NOT to farm their land. How idiotic is that???
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Originally Posted by runningncircles1
I'm surprised that Nevada is a donor state with all of the military funding it gets.
Nevada is home to a large casino industry, specifically Las Vegas, Reno, Laughlin, and Lake Tahoe. Gambling revenue is subject to both state and federal taxes ... so with the huge amount of tourists who flock to Nevada just to play in the casinos, it amounts to a sizeable contribution.
I looked briefly at the statistics (recruit-to-population ratio) on that and while I need to dig in to it deeper, you appear to be generally on target. I think Montana was #1 and interestingly next-door neighbor, North Dakota was #50. New Jersey was #46. Why do you think that is and what does it mean?
I know what it means in WV. Those who didn't get the grades for college, or can't find financial aid, or have no clue what career they should pursue, wind up joining the military. Lack of diverse opportunity in rural settings becomes one of the few open doors available to them.
As for the misc pretzel logic trying to debunk decades long unchanged statistics... this math includes all income and all expenditures. That means the only state not involved in usury (not lender, not borrower) is Rhode Island. Blue NJ is paying for the welfare of rural communities like big daddy. Red states like AK & WV are the recipients of big daddy's generosity. If so much land is owned by federal govt in alaska, I'm under the impression it's mostly tundra and habitat for wildlife, not managed with heavy hand. That purchase was made how long ago? Sewards folly? It's considered red ink now, or is that federal land paying local property tax red ink??? You have an oil industry feeding your state because federal money went into your pipeline construction and the lower 48 never saw an offset from $137 bbl oil on commodities market. That uneccessary price hike went directly into your coffers at the expense of all.
While AK enjoys more personal freedom, no personal income tax, and zero/ no taxes municipal level, to cover misc services like water, utilities, schools, police force, libraries, highway maint. etc, the rest of us ARE paying that via additional taxes on what's left in our hands from 2 more levels of government. Who believes that's fair?
When it costs $16 daily commute to get to the mainland from long island via bridge/tunnel toll fees, I have to wonder why federal money isn't applied to the goose that's been laying the golden egg for over 100yrs, and instead, is building a bridge to nowhere in alaska. All the while calling your patrons 'welfare elitists'!!!
No, I'm not suggesting anyone put a hate on rural communities or short shrift those who actually need subsidy. What I am saying is those who talk the loudest with BS ideology ought to know better which side their bread is buttered on or wind up getting what they asked for to their own detriment. GOP decimated upstate NY dairy by obliging them lack of subsidy (they didn't want price locks holding back their profit margins from downstate sales).
End of the story the lower cost dairy economy of virginia and pennsylvania took over the downstate market, putting the upstate cows out of business. That loss of industry income went on the backs of every homeowner there via property taxes + having less jobs to cover that burden. Downstate now pays much higher prices for dairy, requiring WIC to be funded with higher taxes for all. Upstate dairy, in the words of ann richards, was born with a silver foot in their mouths.
The example of Louisianna sailordave put out there... who gets what money and why? Louisianna has serious $$$$ biz going on in morgan city for commodities and shipping. I've worked with those fellas and they're no slouches. Very savy, very conscientious, very professional. Whatever happens to the money they pay in taxation, and whatever money returns to Louisianna for infrastructure and for schools etc... you need to police your own better before you scream rape by federal govt. It's clear to me the money sent there isn't going where it was supposed to go. That's YOUR job as citizens.
Angry about environmental restrictions? How much worse would katrina chemical soup be if not for properly maintained storage facilities? Think of every drop in those tanks & connecting pipelines contaminating your entire water table. Mechanically those facilities prevailed, the bulk of the damage delaying plants getting back up and running occurred to electrical systems (not based on articles, but by inside info I got in my oil industry).
http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-louisiana/1061179-1.html (broken link)
The difference between alaska and louisianna?? Alaska gets to blame big daddy federal for taxes, even though it's taxing the corporations drawing from it's resources at a higher rate (subsidizing citizens & small biz). Louisianna as a state is percieved as the meanie big daddy because they legislated the tax vs the sleight of hand version from alaska. I'd love to see the real math comparing you two. Either way you're still drawing more from the system than you put in (AKA welfare) but the projected images of both states are vastly different. Blue state= welfare, Red state= pick yourselves up by the bootstraps is a lie. Get a little money in your pockets and that entitles you to trash talk america??? The moment you start seeing black ink, that's when you spit on the bank & obsolve yourselves of paying into the system you dined from regularly???
Mr. Hickel is contending that the Federal Government owes the state at least $29 billion for all the land it has taken out of development. The statehood compact requires that 90 percent of all revenue from oil, mineral and gas leasing on Alaska's Federal land be given to the state. By withdrawing more than 100 million acres from potential development, the suit says, the Government has taken away the state's ability to derive income from those lands.
Ahhh the regular cast of characters lined up as GOP Al Sharpton representation exploiting victim mentalities sold on rural streets...
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Other Western states, notably Idaho, Nevada, Montana and Wyoming, have long complained about Federal ownership of land in their state.
Upon becoming the federal Secretary of the Interior, Hickel proved to be a strong environmentalist, supporting liberal Congressional laws that put liabilities on oil companies operating offshore oil rigs, as well as demanding environmental safeguards on Alaska's growing oil industry.
These types of lists are next to useless because they make the sparsely populated states (where we spend billions testing nukes, missiles, etc not to mention the space for large military bases with jets screaming overhead day and night.
As one friend from New Mexico told me; "Hey, if New Jersey wants them to test nukes and missiles up there - go for it."
New Mexico is also one of the poorest states in the nation ... I believe right behind Mississippi in terms of people living below the poverty line. Therefore, lots of people are "qualified" to receive federal benefits simply for being poor. Of course, we all know that the more money people receive from the government, the more lazy and unproductive they tend to be.
They do have a large poor population, but most of those poor people are Native Americans living on reservations, thus most of the money going into New Mexico isn't welfare. Even with all that poverty, most of the money is spent on military expenditures and research. There is soooo much money in it.
I know what it means in WV. Those who didn't get the grades for college, or can't find financial aid, or have no clue what career they should pursue, wind up joining the military. Lack of diverse opportunity in rural settings becomes one of the few open doors available to them.
Not always true. There are all sorts of programs available to those who can't afford college in the inner cities. For example, back in the 60's when I attended College in the Bronx, NY, I could attend college free of charge under the Seek Program. Still, recruitment in NY was quite high back then, and after I graduated I still joined the military, where I learned skills relating to electronics that I use to this day. Not only that, but a lot of college degrees are awarded to serving military members by universities around the nation. Military officers (pilots, medics, engineers, etc.) already have college degrees, and that's why they are offered such positions.
But the training doesn't stop there. For example, while I served as an enlisted member, I received hundreds of classroom hours in the field of Civil Engineering, counseling techniques, supervisory techniques, and electronics. A lot of this skills I use as my present supervisory position.
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As for the misc pretzel logic trying to debunk decades long unchanged statistics... this math includes all income and all expenditures. That means the only state not involved in usury (not lender, not borrower) is Rhode Island. Blue NJ is paying for the welfare of rural communities like big daddy. Red states like AK & WV are the recipients of big daddy's generosity. If so much land is owned by federal govt in alaska, I'm under the impression it's mostly tundra and habitat for wildlife, not managed with heavy hand. That purchase was made how long ago? Sewards folly? It's considered red ink now, or is that federal land paying local property tax red ink??? You have an oil industry feeding your state because federal money went into your pipeline construction and the lower 48 never saw an offset from $137 bbl oil on commodities market. That uneccessary price hike went directly into your coffers at the expense of all.
Wrong about Alaska. The greatest portion of the State of Alaska belongs to the Federal Government, then the State of Alaska, and then Native Alaskans. As I mentioned before, a lot of the money that comes to Alaska is for the support of military programs, installations, training, Missile Defense, and on and on. The Federal workforce in Alaska is huge. For example, just around Fairbanks: Fort Wainwright, National Weather and their supercomputers, etc. (at UAF), IARC (at UAF), NASA, Eielson AFB, Clear AFB, Fort Greely, etc. On top of that, the Federal Government controls oil and mining operations (extraction, production, the sale of these products, etc.). Alaska is not allowed to drill in ANWAR, offshore, etc., unless the Government (Congress and the President) allow it. Again, a portion of every barrel of oil extracted, as well as a portion of every ounce of gold and other minerals mined, belongs to the Federal Government, and this money is not an income tax on the workers, The workers pay income tax from their earnings.
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While AK enjoys more personal freedom, no personal income tax, and zero/ no taxes municipal level, to cover misc services like water, utilities, schools, police force, libraries, highway maint. etc, the rest of us ARE paying that via additional taxes on what's left in our hands from 2 more levels of government. Who believes that's fair?
You don't know what you are talking about:
1. I have to pay the same income taxes to the Federal Government you do, which amounts to around 42% once you add (to the Federal income tax) gasoline tax, telephone tax, alcohol tax, tobacco tax, taxes for sports equipment and such, telephone taxes, and on and on.
2. At the local level, there are sales and property taxes. Property taxes include school taxes, borough or city taxes, taxes included in the water and sewage and electric bills, taxes to pay for road maintenance, land tax, and so forth. For a 1,700-Sq. feet of living space house, I pay around $3,000 in property taxes each year.
The Federal Government helps with road maintenance, simply because it has to use the roads and railways to move equipment, and their military and civilian workforce. The only time the Federal Government would not pay the State would be if the Sate secedes or becomes an independent nation, since it's taking money from all working Americans to use it on itself.
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When it costs $16 daily commute to get to the mainland from long island via bridge/tunnel toll fees, I have to wonder why federal money isn't applied to the goose that's been laying the golden egg for over 100yrs, and instead, is building a bridge to nowhere in alaska. All the while calling your patrons 'welfare elitists'!!!
Suuuure Alaska hasn't built a bridge to nowhere. The reason why you pay so much to commute is to support your State's employees: pensions, benefits, salaries, etc., and services. Do you want the Federal Government to turn State workers into a federal workforce instead? All the local NY taxes are used to support a huge number of State workers and their dependents. This included all sorts of high-paying jobs and benefits of school faculty and staff, city mayors, police, fire, and so forth. It's nothing more than a vicious circle you have created yourselves, big welfare like GM and Chrysler. The same can be said for CA, where they have taxed themselves to death, driving business out of town.
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No, I'm not suggesting anyone put a hate on rural communities or short shrift those who actually need subsidy. What I am saying is those who talk the loudest with BS ideology ought to know better which side their bread is buttered on or wind up getting what they asked for to their own detriment. GOP decimated upstate NY dairy by obliging them lack of subsidy (they didn't want price locks holding back their profit margins from downstate sales).
So now you are blaming the GOP for the mess your leaders have created? Don't you realize that NY, except for areas far away from the cities, has always been Democrat? Also, both the republicans are not only corrupt, but both are the same. What has killed your State is the liberal taxing and spending. You are taxing yourselves to death, and supporting a huge population of illegal immigrants and their dependents, and your enormous State employee workforce.
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End of the story the lower cost dairy economy of virginia and pennsylvania took over the downstate market, putting the upstate cows out of business. That loss of industry income went on the backs of every homeowner there via property taxes + having less jobs to cover that burden. Downstate now pays much higher prices for dairy, requiring WIC to be funded with higher taxes for all. Upstate dairy, in the words of ann richards, was born with a silver foot in their mouths.
That's your fault, as well as your leaders (the ones you vote for, which more than likely are liberals who tax all day, and spend all night)
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The example of Louisianna sailordave put out there... who gets what money and why? Louisianna has serious $$$$ biz going on in morgan city for commodities and shipping. I've worked with those fellas and they're no slouches. Very savy, very conscientious, very professional. Whatever happens to the money they pay in taxation, and whatever money returns to Louisianna for infrastructure and for schools etc... you need to police your own better before you scream rape by federal govt. It's clear to me the money sent there isn't going where it was supposed to go. That's YOUR job as citizens.
The example of Louisiana is: another place that have had Democrats in charge for generations.
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Angry about environmental restrictions? How much worse would katrina chemical soup be if not for properly maintained storage facilities? Think of every drop in those tanks & connecting pipelines contaminating your entire water table. Mechanically those facilities prevailed, the bulk of the damage delaying plants getting back up and running occurred to electrical systems (not based on articles, but by inside info I got in my oil industry).
Some Louisiana oil companies consider post-Katrina relocations permanent | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com (http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-louisiana/1061179-1.html - broken link)
What have environmental restrictions to do with a natural disaster? There are floods taking place all over the nation, leaving behind excrement, and every chemical one can think about.
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The difference between alaska and louisianna?? Alaska gets to blame big daddy federal for taxes, even though it's taxing the corporations drawing from it's resources at a higher rate (subsidizing citizens & small biz). Louisianna as a state is percieved as the meanie big daddy because they legislated the tax vs the sleight of hand version from alaska. I'd love to see the real math comparing you two. Either way you're still drawing more from the system than you put in (AKA welfare) but the projected images of both states are vastly different. Blue state= welfare, Red state= pick yourselves up by the bootstraps is a lie. Get a little money in your pockets and that entitles you to trash talk america??? The moment you start seeing black ink, that's when you spit on the bank & obsolve yourselves of paying into the system you dined from regularly???
You have no idea of what you are talking about. Alaska is mostly owned by the Federal Government. The money is going to the Federal Government itself, and a small portion to those in Medicare, Welfare, etc.
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Ahhh the regular cast of characters lined up as GOP Al Sharpton representation exploiting victim mentalities sold on rural streets...
But he is right. Why should the Federal Government take 90% and the State of Alaska 10%? There aren't any other States where the Federal Government takes 90% of the State's resources, only in Alaska. And only here the Federal Government controls a portion of F&G.
katiana, that's not what I said, but it was the vested interest RayinAK had to miscommunicate deliberately. 18yr old WV'ns who do not go onto higher education are hard pressed to find a career at all, in any industry, because economic diversity is largely absent for many decades. The further away from our cities the worse it gets. Youth have for many decades been encouraged to leave the state to seek their fortune (which I find sad). WV governor has been making serious efforts to change this, but that takes time & effort, and not many will hold their breath. Bittersweet economics here but not being native, I'm more impervious.
RayinAK-- you refuse to acknowlege the fact that 90% of the revenue stays in state kitty reducing your overall tax burden locally because you've got that revenue stream subsidy happening to enable that, whereas other states not only pay more into federal than they ever get back, but they also shoulder the full cost of their own neighborhoods with what's left in their hand AFTER taking care of Alaska and WV and Louisianna. 10% goes to federal and is included in the math formula of black ink vs red ink. You're still getting more than you give, which is full time subsidy to alaska. You begrudge the ammount of land owned by federal... 103 million acres and you aren't self sufficient with that yet???
I'm neither dem nor repub as well. I'm a native NY'r and I live by choice in WV. I have no hatred of any state, but you've confused your ideology for reality. The reality is blue states have been shouldering more than their fair share-- which isn't a big deal until they get a kick in the teeth & blamed for doing so. Then things get ugly. I suppose we could just get the 100% flat tax system to make sure everyone is Rhode Island-- put in a dollar, get out a dollar. I'm certain many states will get a rude awakening. Even DC having to pay for it's own elaborate security & largesse... OH my the look on DC resident faces having to shoulder the entire federal govt & accessories alone!
Against pensions? GM was obliged to set that money aside in interest bearing vehicles same as airlines as part of compensation plan. The difference between Board room & workforce is that the Boardroom gets their retirement money up front, and workforce gets theirs on the back end. They found ways around it despite legislation? Those pensions mean they're less dependent on welfare.
I'd be interested to see your math about how someone should plan any retirement when the insurance fund covering pensions was sold down the river by Bush jr on wall street gambles last fall. How many responsible people with 401k plans down the crapper? How many privately held annuities (assuming they're solvent when all these banks are plagued with toxic assets) will be down the crapper if inflation gets ugly? How does your ideology solve retirement planning for the masses? How would you balance the budgets? How would you prevent/ mitigate corruption in 2 party system? I'm listening.
Sorry if I offended you, harborlady. I grew up in western PA and am very familiar with the issues in W. VA, which are similar to those in many communities in W. Pa.
Exactly..the blue states pay the most taxes (for whatever reason) yet the red states are the ones complaining the most? Whatever your political beliefs, you have to admit the irony of it.
Can you imagine the backlash and posts in this forum if it were the blue states that were being subsidized by the red states?
The cost of living in those "blue states" is through the roof, people need to make a six figure salary to be able to afford a tiny two bedroom house. Of coarse you're going to pay more taxes if you need to make a high income to survive. Get the COL under control in those states and you won't bear so much of the burden.
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You have an oil industry feeding your state because federal money went into your pipeline construction and the lower 48 never saw an offset from $137 bbl oil on commodities market. That uneccessary price hike went directly into your coffers at the expense of all.
The moment you start seeing black ink, that's when you spit on the bank & obsolve yourselves of paying into the system you dined from regularly??? 
Alaska hasn't built a bridge to nowhere. The reason why you pay so much to commute is to support your State's employees: pensions, benefits, salaries, etc., and services. Do you want the Federal Government to turn State workers into a federal workforce instead? All the local NY taxes are used to support a huge number of State workers and their dependents. This included all sorts of high-paying jobs and benefits of school faculty and staff, city mayors, police, fire, and so forth. It's nothing more than a vicious circle you have created yourselves, big welfare like GM and Chrysler. The same can be said for CA, where they have taxed themselves to death, driving business out of town.
