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I looked at Wikipedia today and was surprised that New York City has a metro area of just over 18 million people while LA has just under 18 million people (in the metro area).
These metro areas have a higher population than about 45 of the states. (I think only Florida and Texas -- and California and New York have populations over 18 million.)
Neither NYC or LA have liberal concealed carry regulations and I think I can understand why...
What would happen in a congested area (say 1,000 people on the street) if gunshots rang out and a lot of people had concealed carry permits?
First off, in a crowded area, it's hard to tell where the sound originated from. If a lot of people started pulling out guns, wouldn't a lot of other people want to jump them thinking they are the ones who just shot their weapon?
Everyone needs to realize 1,000 people on the street is a "disorganized" mass. Everyone isn't going the same direction. It's nothing like a group of people in a classroom or a stadium. Everyone is headed in different directions.
I would really love to see one of the news stations simulate this.
I don't believe concealed weapons are safe in a big city mostly due to issues like this. Too many people, too much confusion. It doesn't matter if you're a good guy or a bad guy if there is no way for the general public to distinguish between the two. Uniforms enable the police to stand out.
Whoa whoa, now. You have to be careful with those numbers. You're looking at LA's CSA. The actual MSA is about 13 million. NYC's MSA is 18 million. NYC's CSA is about 22 million.
LA doesn't have many people walking on the street (car dependency issues) and NYC only has people in the metro walking around; the rest are in cars/offices any given moment.
I can see where your logic is coming from, but that says you're in a world with 0 delay; the graph of a response to a stimulus, u(t), would look something like this:
__/¯¯
The ideal looks like this: __|¯¯ no slope because there's no delay.
Getting past my nerdery, let's say a guy with a concealed weapon hears shots coming from somewhere. Other people around the vicinity do, as well. First, there's the delay to respond from the external stress on your system and to come out of shock. Then, you look to see what said noise was. You see a man holding a gun shooting. You now grab your gun and know where to fire. Other people will react the same way. Everyone will know who the "crazy guy" is and know whom to shoot. The only people who would react differently would be specially trained officers (think Navy Seals, Marine Snipers, etc.) because they have been conditioned to. These folks can do this with little delay and their u(t) curve looks a bit more like the ideal, with a steeper slope. By the time the others unfasten their guns, the officer has said "freeze, I'm an officer, hold fire,..." and so on to alert people that the situation needs no further assistance.
So saying that an old-fashion western would take place by allowing concealed carry is not necessarily true.
First off, in a crowded area, it's hard to tell where the sound originated from. If a lot of people started pulling out guns
A properly trained person that is carrying wouldn't pull out their gun at the sound of a gun shot in the street. Also, you never take a shot unless it is free of innocents in the firing line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50
I would really love to see one of the news stations simulate this.
Probably like 20/20's hack job that was nowhere like real life.
The DFW area has about 6.3 million people nowadays. Maybe it's just us crazy cowboys but concealed hand gun permits are carried by the thousands and rarely if ever do they pull a gun unless needed for self defense.
I admit there are some really crazy people in LA & NY city and you might have a point on limiting anyone crazy enough to live in those cities.
But the rest of us are doing just fine with our concealed permits. Thanks for your concerns though.
I looked at Wikipedia today and was surprised that New York City has a metro area of just over 18 million people while LA has just under 18 million people (in the metro area).
These metro areas have a higher population than about 45 of the states. (I think only Florida and Texas -- and California and New York have populations over 18 million.)
Neither NYC or LA have liberal concealed carry regulations and I think I can understand why...
What would happen in a congested area (say 1,000 people on the street) if gunshots rang out and a lot of people had concealed carry permits?
First off, in a crowded area, it's hard to tell where the sound originated from. If a lot of people started pulling out guns, wouldn't a lot of other people want to jump them thinking they are the ones who just shot their weapon?
Everyone needs to realize 1,000 people on the street is a "disorganized" mass. Everyone isn't going the same direction. It's nothing like a group of people in a classroom or a stadium. Everyone is headed in different directions.
I would really love to see one of the news stations simulate this.
I don't believe concealed weapons are safe in a big city mostly due to issues like this. Too many people, too much confusion. It doesn't matter if you're a good guy or a bad guy if there is no way for the general public to distinguish between the two. Uniforms enable the police to stand out.
I'm think it's safe to assume that you've never been to L.A...
I can see how someone who doesn't have any experience with guns and has been absorbing the anti-gun propaganda for a while could reach the conclusions you have, but the reality is that you don't understand what you're talking about. Not saying it to be mean, but it's obvious.
Despite what the propaganda implies and what the gun grabbers tell you, CCW holders are not cowboys who are just itching to kill someone. Obtaining a CCW in most states involves a thorough background check, fingerprinting, completing at minimum a cursory training class, and in California (which is not a SHALL issue state), you have to actually provide justification for wanting the permit.
In other words, CCW holders are almost universally better educated on the risks and realities of carrying than those who would seek to remove their right to carry, and they're also often better trained and practiced than the average police officer.
The bottom line is that nobody who's legitimately carrying a weapon - especially in the two states you focused on - would intentionally put innocent lives at risk in a situation like what you described.
LA doesn't have many people walking on the street (car dependency issues) and NYC only has people in the metro walking around; the rest are in cars/offices any given moment.
In certain areas, LA has plenty of people walking around. We were at a stoplight near Hollywood and Highland on a Thursday afternoon and there were like a zillion people milling around. Or check out the garment district on weekends. Everyone isn't in a car.
I'm think it's safe to assume that you've never been to L.A...
I can see how someone who doesn't have any experience with guns and has been absorbing the anti-gun propaganda for a while could reach the conclusions you have, but the reality is that you don't understand what you're talking about. Not saying it to be mean, but it's obvious.
Despite what the propaganda implies and what the gun grabbers tell you, CCW holders are not cowboys who are just itching to kill someone. Obtaining a CCW in most states involves a thorough background check, fingerprinting, completing at minimum a cursory training class, and in California (which is not a SHALL issue state), you have to actually provide justification for wanting the permit.
In other words, CCW holders are almost universally better educated on the risks and realities of carrying than those who would seek to remove their right to carry, and they're also often better trained and practiced than the average police officer.
The bottom line is that nobody who's legitimately carrying a weapon - especially in the two states you focused on - would intentionally put innocent lives at risk in a situation like what you described.
Ahem. I live in LA. I'm fully aware of what it takes to get a CCW here and in NYC and I'm also aware that hardly anyone has one.
But there is some goofy bill the NRA is trying to get passed in California that would turn California into a "Shall issue" state instead of a "May issue" one.
Ahem. I live in LA. I'm fully aware of what it takes to get a CCW here and in NYC and I'm also aware that hardly anyone has one.
But there is some goofy bill the NRA is trying to get passed in California that would turn California into a "Shall issue" state instead of a "May issue" one.
That same bill you call goofy, has been passed in 43 other states, inlcuding Texas, Arizona, and Florida, all of which have cities with densities similar to LA and NYC, and none of the fears your are aspousing came true, in fact crime has gone down since passing of those bills.
Unfortunetely the bill is dead and will not become law now, but hopefully if will in the not so distant future.
I am one of the priveleged few 40,000 CCW holders in CA and have been fortunate to never have had to use it, but I don't ever leave home witout it.
A properly trained person that is carrying wouldn't pull out their gun at the sound of a gun shot in the street. Also, you never take a shot unless it is free of innocents in the firing line.
Probably like 20/20's hack job that was nowhere like real life.
-Robert
There was already a Special on one of the major networks, can't recall which one? They had a small group of people who had extended handgun training and they put all three in a room. I think the room was to mimic a conference room. In the scenario a bad guy stormed the room and all the tester's failed the test. I am not suggesting that every person who undergoes extensive handgun training will fail but to suggest otherwise is not a good statement to make either.
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