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You know that is ironic. First off, this country has older settlements in St Augustine and New Mexico than it does in Massachusetts. And Philadelphia was more important than Boston in the Revolution. Still is.
And you ever realize why we even have Thanksgiving? The government of Massachusetts was forcing everyone to share their crops with everyone else. It didn't take long for some people to realize they didn't have to worl all that hard. They could just eat their neighbors food.
This led to resentment by the people that did work. So they just stopped growing as much food. People began to starve. Finally, the governemnt of Massachusetts told people they could keep what they grew. Next harvest there was so much food they invited the Indians over for dinner.
The collectivists (liberal) policies were killing people. Let an individual do as they please (libertarian) and we had extreme wealth.
And 60,000 a year is kinda useless when you have to pay 6 or 7 hundred thousand for an average house.
And Cleveland has nothing to do with Rock and/or Roll? LOL.s Rock and/or Roll was invented in Cleveland. You're welcome world.
Did the good people of St Augustine draft the Constitution? Did the Spanish in New Mexico take up arms at Lexington and Concord? NO THEY DIDN'T. Which leads me to point two.
Philly's role in the Rev War, is total bull****. The events in Boston-surely you know what they are, but I'll enumerate anyway, the The Navigation Acts [which turned MA Bay into a British police state], the Stamp Act, the Boston Massacre, the Tea Party and eventually the Battles of Lexington and Concord. John Adams wrote the Declaration of Independence with Jefferson, John Adams' MAss Constitution was the foundation of the Federal Constitution. It was the Massachusetts [and New England] delegation which pushed Independence through the continental congress. PAers, could have cared less. The southerns were more concerned about their slaves than independence. You live in a New England country, my friend. Even your state was part of the claims made by the State of Connecticut.
Boston is the center of American education, the third largest financial center in the country, the second highest concentration of high tech jobs after SFB, the highest concentration of research in the nation. Boston's importance is ranked along the lines of Chicago and SF and DC.
Thanksgiving was a socialist Communist concotion by the liberals of Plymouth Colony? You've got to be be kidding me? That's just stupid. I guess you'll have turkey on your face come November as you sit down to enjoy that cranberry sauce-brought to you by the good yankee farmers of Massachusetts. You must have gotten your degree in History from Glenn Beck University. The Pilgrims endured a harsh winter in 1620. The Natives helped them through the summer and at harvest time a grand celebration occurred to give thanks for surviving the first year. They feasted for 3 days. Massachusetts in 1621 consisted of 100 houses on the shores of Plymouth Harbor. Applying the term "liberal" to 17th century religious zealots is about as dumb an argument as ever. I'm thinking you definitely get your "info" from the Beckster.
I know all about the revolution, 1700's remember. The industrial revolution was not centered in Mass & Mass had little if anything to do with its coming about. How ridiculous can you be?
Creation of the 20th century economy? Yeah sure, I guess in your mind we should call the country "The United states of Mass" Not for nothing but your state is going broke and our country is going broke, both largely due to the economic policies of the late 20th century. So, is it praise or blame you place at the feet of Mass?
Your arrogance is pretty telling. I live in CT & have my whole life. Never considered myself anything but a New Englander. ME, VT & NH all reflect the values & freedoms this country was founded to protect & preserve. MA & CT to a lesser degree have tossed those principles aside in the name of progress and suffered culturally. If you think big cities & entitlement programs more in tune with New England than farms & self sufficient people you truly are clueless. I suspect that rural Mass understands the cost of your states agenda, just as rural CT understands how so called progress strips people of identity & creates homelessness, poverty & everything that goes along with it.
Whopdie do. How much money did it cost the US to get your sad state out of a recession? Why, if your job creation is so meaningfull are people leaving the state in greater numbers than are coming? Why not adress how come, if liberalism is working there, you needed help at all?
Why is it there are any troubles in Mass at all if liberalism is so grand?
Why not adress the way you people embrace liberalism to the point that you will elect an irresponsible killer to office for decades?
Heres a fact, Mass, CT, RI, ME, VT & NH were all argriculturally based economies, New England itself historically was an agricultural center. Sure there were factories & manufactureing but they made up a small chunk of the whole. They still are largely rural with a few urban areas that are trying to redefine reality. If you dumped Boston & a couple other cities into the sea Mass would be much better off. Same goes for CT. There is no question about it. Urban areas are a drain on the economy & only benefit those living there. If you are alive you benefit from rural America wherever you are. In contrast, if you are alive in America you pay higher taxes to support urban areas, wherever you are. Cities cost us in too many ways to count, are a drain on the economy & give nothing back.
Lowell, Holyoke and Waltham were all the first planned Industrial Cities in the new world....right MA had nothing to do with the IR.
Google Massachusetts Miracle, then tell me how unimportant Mass was to the creation of the modern, service based economy of the western world.
Who's leaving the state, our state didn't get any smaller? My god, so we didn't add 1 million people, name a single state above the MD line that did. And I'll give you a lollipop.
Chief Executive says its #47
US Best and Worst States For Business - 2009, CHIEF EXECUTIVE (http://www.chiefexecutive.net/media/usbestandworststates/2009/ - broken link)
Most of the other random sites put in around those numbers, where exactly did you get your stats?
Really guys, this isn't hard and I could do this all day. Fact is that high taxes, high social support networks, high cost of living, all lead to higher costs of doing business.
CNBC says 5, so I don't know what to tell you.
News Headlines (http://www.cnbc.com/id/37516043 - broken link)
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
5,152 posts, read 8,528,010 times
Reputation: 2038
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader
It was the libertarian politics of the 19th century and early 20th that made New England wealthy. The region is a blackhole as far as jobs go now. Nearly all the great mills of New England that made the region wealthy are empty. The arms manufacturers were among the last holdouts but are leaving a well. A large portion of New England's early wealth was based on the whaling industry, which is long gone. MA is nowhere close to a free state today, it's a nanny state that regulates everything everyone does. It wasn't the center of the universe in the colonial days either. People fled MA en masse for greater freedom in CT and RI in the 17th century. MA had next to no supplies when the Revolution broke out, the Revolution would have been lost by MA if not for the captured arms and ammunition from Fort Ticonderoga, captured by the Green Mountain Boys.
I'd like to see what those city people in Boston eat if those "desolate cornfield" states cut off the food supply.
I would say blowing up trade policies that kept jobs in this country that was statred by one of the kings of conservatism, Reagan, had way more to do with manufacturing jobs leaving than liberal policies.
It was the libertarian politics of the 19th century and early 20th that made New England wealthy. The region is a blackhole as far as jobs go now. Nearly all the great mills of New England that made the region wealthy are empty. The arms manufacturers were among the last holdouts but are leaving a well. A large portion of New England's early wealth was based on the whaling industry, which is long gone. MA is nowhere close to a free state today, it's a nanny state that regulates everything everyone does. It wasn't the center of the universe in the colonial days either. People fled MA en masse for greater freedom in CT and RI in the 17th century. MA had next to no supplies when the Revolution broke out, the Revolution would have been lost by MA if not for the captured arms and ammunition from Fort Ticonderoga, captured by the Green Mountain Boys.
I'd like to see what those city people in Boston eat if those "desolate cornfield" states cut off the food supply.
I'm begining to think ALL conservatives really were "educated" at Beck University. He must deny the very existence of Massachusetts in any form.
One, the ENTIRE war would have beem lost if not for the French, Spanish Empire and Dutch Republic. Not because of Fort Ticonderoga. By all accounts, Massachusetts was the first colony to be liberated.
It really was the revolutionaries in Massachusetts who pushed independence in the CC and across the colonies. Very few people were initially interested in shaking off the Brits.
Two, Massachusetts was literally the wealthiest colony. It's money came from it's large merchant class, who traded with the far east before anyone. The ports of Boston and Salem were the wealthiest in the nation. Well ahead of Philly and New York.
can you cite specific examples in which Bay Staters are less free than some of their counterparts elsewhere? B/c I just came back from Cali-and I felt oppressed. Random ID checks, police blockades on the highways between SD and LA, a hefty fines from cell phone usage to jaywalking, to paying through the ass in taxes-9.75% sales tax in LA County, btw. I think we're pretty well off here in MA.
Did the good people of St Augustine draft the Constitution? Did the Spanish in New Mexico take up arms at Lexington and Concord? NO THEY DIDN'T. Which leads me to point two.
.
Thing is what you are talking about happened 200+ years ago and was done by people in no way similar to current Bostonians, from what I see.
The people in New Mexico certainly took arms in defense of our country many times. That it didn't happen in the revolution means nothing.
Want to hear something meaningfull?
The people of New Mexico can still take up arms in defense of the country because the state of New Mexico respects the constitution you seem to feel so proud of.
However the good people of Massachusetts cannot do so without jumping thru hoops & leaping hurdles first. See, it really doesn't matter in this discussion what those gents 200 years ago did or how they felt. What matters in the context of this discussion is that MA regularly ignores the Constitution and violates peoples civil rights on a whim. That is reality and that is liberalism. As liberalism & liberty cannot co-exist, regardless of your version of history.
How well do you think it would have gone over to tell George Washington & Ben Franklin they would be arrested if they came to your state armed?
I'm begining to think ALL conservatives really were "educated" at Beck University. He must deny the very existence of Massachusetts in any form.
One, the ENTIRE war would have beem lost if not for the French, Spanish Empire and Dutch Republic. Not because of Fort Ticonderoga. By all accounts, Massachusetts was the first colony to be liberated.
It really was the revolutionaries in Massachusetts who pushed independence in the CC and across the colonies. Very few people were initially interested in shaking off the Brits.
Two, Massachusetts was literally the wealthiest colony. It's money came from it's large merchant class, who traded with the far east before anyone. The ports of Boston and Salem were the wealthiest in the nation. Well ahead of Philly and New York.
can you cite specific examples in which Bay Staters are less free than some of their counterparts elsewhere? B/c I just came back from Cali-and I felt oppressed. Random ID checks, police blockades on the highways between SD and LA, a hefty fines from cell phone usage to jaywalking, to paying through the ass in taxes-9.75% sales tax in LA County, btw. I think we're pretty well off here in MA.
ALL of New England lobbyed for the war. Of course MA was wealthier, it had a bigger population & was more influential. But that population and wealth couldn't help when the Britts started cutting them off. Without the rest of us you wouldn't have made it.
As to which states enjoy greater freedom, just about all of them save Cali, NY, NJ, MD & DC. Heck you should know that you are bordered to the north by much more free states and to the south by one thats catching up but not there yet.
Numbers are nice to look at & stats can be meaningfull, but going & seeing how the people live is a better litmus. I know people in NH who dont make near what I can & live in cute little houses but are quite content & happy. On the other hand I often work for rich people in CT who can get anything they want whenever they want but cant buy happiness.
Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness. Not much room in there for liberal nanny state socialism. No guaretees, except a chance.
Conservatives don't consider GW Bush to be a true conservative. He tried too often to work with Ted Kennedy only to get stabbed in the back by him. he also was too liberal on illegal aliens and government spending.
This is a pretty strange conversation, but as a MA resident I want to pipe in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker
Your taxes are pushing your liberal losers into neighboring states where they immediately start into changing things into what they ran from.
I don't like the taxes in MA, but I can't say I like the taxes any where else either. I was just in No Cali for vacation (beautiful space) and my jaw dropped over the sales tax. Here we're complaining about 6% (should have stayed at 5%), but damn with the 9% they have in cali. NJ is no better. I have lived in Fla and NH where some taxes were lower, but it's a trade off. I don't recall property taxes being all that great in NH. Seems to be about the same in my SES class, tho, maybe it's a different ball game for the rich. I also wouldn't say that MA is chalk full of liberals/socialists. There are plenty of fiscally conservative folk here. The rich, OTOH, are a different matter.
Quote:
Last thing good to come from Mass was back in the mid 1700's. If anything in New England should be let to rot & die its Massachu****s.
Well, most likely you or members of your family are highly dependent on the research and technology coming out of MA. In the west there's no way around the importance of R&D and the region is an academic mecca for tech and med tech. That seems to be the case for both coasts, tho, I'm not familiar with the west as much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader
I'd like to see what those city people in Boston eat if those "desolate cornfield" states cut off the food supply.
I don't think it's fair for anyone to snub a state. They all have something to offer. If the sh*t hit the fan, I'd bolt to a more rural space if the opportunity presented itself. If the west survives, meaning we remain reliant on technology, it's safer for some to dwell in places like Boston. The problem, imo, with areas like metro Boston, is that if a person isn't educated and tapped into work that involves development, survival here can be difficult. I don't know how some folk manage.
It really was the revolutionaries in Massachusetts who pushed independence in the CC and across the colonies. Very few people were initially interested in shaking off the Brits.
I call your Mass and raise you Virginia.
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