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It's the same issue we've been dealing with in Idaho since the feds introduced them in '95. The killing of livestock and pets is common, and wildlife herds are down dramatically. (Yellowstone elk herd was over 19k animals before wolves were introduced, now somewhere around 4k).
Are you suggesting that the ~124 wolves in Yellowstone have killed 15,000 elk in just the Northern Herd (your statistics seem to be for the Northern herd - well over 100,000 elk live in various parts of Yellowstone at various times of the year) as well as hordes of livestock and pets? How much can a wolf eat in a day?
My research found that the norther herd population in 1993 was 19,359 - a population that was deemed way too high. There were 16,500 in 1995 when wolves were reintroduced. As of Feb 2009 there are 7,109 (an increased population over 2007 and 2008).
Furthermore, every study I've read concludes the decline in population is due mostly to weather - a huge winter die off in 1997 and 5 years of drought from 2000-2005. The second biggest cause of the population decline (a designed population decline) is the increase in elk hunting licenses granted in Yellowstone - now about 3000 per year.
Are you suggesting that the ~124 wolves in Yellowstone have killed 15,000 elk in just the Northern Herd (your statistics seem to be for the Northern herd - well over 100,000 elk live in various parts of Yellowstone at various times of the year) as well as hordes of livestock and pets? How much can a wolf eat in a day?
My research found that the norther herd population in 1993 was 19,359 - a population that was deemed way too high. There were 16,500 in 1995 when wolves were reintroduced. As of Feb 2009 there are 7,109 (an increased population over 2007 and 2008).
Furthermore, every study I've read concludes the decline in population is due mostly to weather - a huge winter die off in 1997 and 5 years of drought from 2000-2005. The second biggest cause of the population decline (a designed population decline) is the increase in elk hunting licenses granted in Yellowstone - now about 3000 per year.
You are correct, it's the Northern herd specifically that I was referring to. From what I've researched, the number of wolves currently in the Yellowstone ecosystem is somewhere over 500. Given that each wolf is estimated to kill 25 elk per year, that works out to a potential kill of 12,500 animals per year. As such it's not hard to envision a loss of 15k animals from the herd over 14 years. Weather related population decline doesn't explain the decrease in cow-calf ratios-if anything weather related losses should lead to an increase. Only depredation explains that. Aslo, hunting only focuses on mature bulls. Since one bull services 20-50 cows, and there are plenty of other bulls around that are happy to fill in, the loss of one bull doen't hurt the herd population significantly. The loss of a cow (via depredation) causes the average loss of at least one animal per year over her expected lifetime.
Also, are you indicating that elk hunting is allowed in Yellowstone Park? If so, do you have any links? I was under the impression that hunting was banned in National Parks.
IMHO - a 19k Yellowstone Elk herd sounds way over the carrying capacity of the ecosystem. 4k seems more reasonable. I will have to read the reports to get the actual data. As we are trying to restore the predator/prey ration (around 1:20 in most "natural" systems) a major reduction in the elk population makes sense after the wolves were introduced. Perhaps there are "too many" wolves at this point but wolf mortality will take care of that. Natural systems oscillate and are never steady state without human intervention.
From the paw prints I will go with a local dog pack and not wolves. AFAK wolves eventually eat what they kill. In my experience domesticated predators display their kills for human approval.
You are correct, it's the Northern herd specifically that I was referring to. From what I've researched, the number of wolves currently in the Yellowstone ecosystem is somewhere over 500. Given that each wolf is estimated to kill 25 elk per year, that works out to a potential kill of 12,500 animals per year. As such it's not hard to envision a loss of 15k animals from the herd over 14 years. Weather related population decline doesn't explain the decrease in cow-calf ratios-if anything weather related losses should lead to an increase. Only depredation explains that. Aslo, hunting only focuses on mature bulls. Since one bull services 20-50 cows, and there are plenty of other bulls around that are happy to fill in, the loss of one bull doen't hurt the herd population significantly. The loss of a cow (via depredation) causes the average loss of at least one animal per year over her expected lifetime.
Also, are you indicating that elk hunting is allowed in Yellowstone Park? If so, do you have any links? I was under the impression that hunting was banned in National Parks.
"At the end of 2008, at least 124 wolves in 12 packs and various groups occupied Yellowstone National Park.This represents a 27% decline compared to the 2007 population and was similar to the 30% decline in 2005. Only six of these packs were breeding pairs, the smallest count since 2000."
"The northern herd contains just a fraction of the 120,000 elk believed to dwell in the park region, and Yellowstone's Northern Range is just 204,000 acres. But this region is of particular interest to scientists because it has the largest wolf population, about 106 of the park's 171 wolves in 2004, making the elk there the most vulnerable herd."
"The wolves were expected to take a bite out of the northern herd, but the decline is greater than expected, says biologist John Vucetich of the Michigan Technical University in Houghton.
Hunters, who target elk that leave the park, have blamed the wolves. But researchers, including Vucetich, say the problem isn't that simple.
In an analysis in the current edition of the ecology journal Oikos, for example, Vucetich and park service colleagues examined weather, hunting and wolves as factors in the elk decline. Yellowstone has had seven years of drought and a severe winter in 1997 that killed many elk.
They found that weather and hunting are mostly to blame."
"Montana increased the "hunter harvest" quota on elk that leave Yellowstone grounds, issuing a higher-than-ever 2,882 hunting permits in 2000. A decline in the elk herd was thus guaranteed, Boyce says, even if wolves were not present."
You're right, you can't hunt in Yellowstone, but as soon as critters set foot outside they're fair game.
Last edited by ramanboy33; 04-21-2009 at 11:03 AM..
Oh but the horrors of air wolf hunting in Alaska!!! They actually shoot these pretty little wolves who are simply prancing in flowery meadows singing songs. The wolves up there are far different than these meanies in Oregon...
As to this idea wolves do not kill for fun,where do you all get this idea from?
Ever see the damage a pack of feral dogs can do?
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