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torture is not a sure way to get anything.
but we stopped playing by queens rules a long time ago friend.
this includes police.
it takes a stalin to stop a hitler.
It goes further than just police. Why not apply it within families, if we want to know something or we're just pissed off? Saddam had one of his sons tortured. Opps! I forgot he forced us to attack his country and hang him. Opps! We already do have people using torture within families. I forget, are they bad because they do that, or good?
What really works is cutting ******* heads off. That get's em every time. What happened to the pink prisons and hop scotch? That's what really worked for the murders and killers.
You wanna see what the rest of the world is like in their jails? Watch "Locked Up Abroad, maybe you'll learn that feeding prisoners too many carbs isn't considered torture.
I'm not really sure what you want to say.
You think prisoners should be beheaded?
How would you get murderers and killers to confess? With torture?
Do you think that police should be brutal?
If Torture Is A Sure Way To Get Truth & Confessions, Should Local Police Across The Nation Apply Torture As Well?
(I write this sarcastically) Many people defend the use of torture
Anyone who condones, approves and defends torture should be deported as an undesirable.
Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, governments are instituted among men to secure rights to life, liberty and private property - not selectively deny them to those who are accused but not convicted.
Anyone who would rather not follow that simple rule, should relocate. They are not worthy of the protections of American government and the mutual cooperation of the American people.
Tolerance of evil is not merciful to the next victim. But using the "Devil's tools" to beat the debbil, is a win for the "wrong team".
If Torture Is A Sure Way To Get Truth & Confessions, Should Local Police Across The Nation Apply Torture As Well?
(I write this sarcastically) Many people defend the use of torture (such as waterboarding and sleep deprivation) as a means of obtaining reliable information and confessions from “suspected” criminals. The most common justification is that torture produces information that will save lives.
If torture is justified to use on non-Americans, shouldn’t the entire concept of torture be applied by police across the nation? After all, maybe they could extract valuable information to protect the lives and property of potential crime and murder victims. Do you think the police would like to have this authority?
Some restrict the definition of torture as damaging internal organs. Therefore, doing something like dropping a piece of red hot charcoal onto someone’s naked belly for about 2 minutes would not harm internal organs. Maybe someone can come up with some more ideas to recommend to CIA interrogators and police departments.
If it's a matter of national security; if it's a national emergency - I would say yes. Otherwise no.
If the use of force is illegal in all circumstances, then you might as well make interrogating prisoners illegal. We can assume no prisoner is going to volunteer information, therefore there's no point in asking for information - which means interrogating prisoners is pointless. And as a preventive measure, making interrogation illegal precludes any possible use of torture.
Indeed we should make their stay with us as pleasant as possible - room service, recreational activities etc. - so that when they go home they will have only good things to say about America.
I don't think letting police "torture" would be nearl the same thing. Police mainly deal with drunks, crooks, and similar things. Police are not being shot at, hung, decapitated and drug through the streets at every opportunity.
Do I think the military should be able to waterboard, deprive prisoners of sleep, etc.? Absolutely. But only if it is a matter of national security. In the case of a lot of the enemy combatants and terrorists I think it would be fine. We're not dealing with a group of people who are planning to rob a bank. We are dealing with a group of people who would kill every last one of us if they were given the chance. They're going to feel that way regardless.
I guess it comes down to how far you are willing to go to protect our country. In this case, I'd be willing to go all the way. I have no sympathy for terrorists and I'm confuesd by the idea of Americans feeling bad for people who would kill us if given the chance.
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
5,152 posts, read 8,529,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn2390
Try to stick to the truth, if you know any truth, from most of your posts, you just quote leftist rags which are totally false Toirture works..! We want more...!
What is Toirture?
Anyway, if TORTURE works, and you want more, let's start it on you or a family member the next time you're/they are in trouble.
Ok, still want more torture?
Anyone who condones, approves and defends torture should be deported as an undesirable.
Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, governments are instituted among men to secure rights to life, liberty and private property - not selectively deny them to those who are accused but not convicted.
Anyone who would rather not follow that simple rule, should relocate. They are not worthy of the protections of American government and the mutual cooperation of the American people.
Tolerance of evil is not merciful to the next victim. But using the "Devil's tools" to beat the debbil, is a win for the "wrong team".
That's easy for you to say, after Bush secured the country for you.
If Torture Is A Sure Way To Get Truth & Confessions, Should Local Police Across The Nation Apply Torture As Well?
(I write this sarcastically) Many people defend the use of torture (such as waterboarding and sleep deprivation) as a means of obtaining reliable information and confessions from “suspected” criminals. The most common justification is that torture produces information that will save lives.
If torture is justified to use on non-Americans, shouldn’t the entire concept of torture be applied by police across the nation? After all, maybe they could extract valuable information to protect the lives and property of potential crime and murder victims. Do you think the police would like to have this authority?
Some restrict the definition of torture as damaging internal organs. Therefore, doing something like dropping a piece of red hot charcoal onto someone’s naked belly for about 2 minutes would not harm internal organs. Maybe someone can come up with some more ideas to recommend to CIA interrogators and police departments.
For many people, this is a difficult and controversial topic. However, it severely cheapens the debate when you attempt to start it by talking about torturing "non-Americans" as if it's that simple and that general.
The debate is about terrorists, not mere "criminals". Where people fail to see the difference, it's not worth having the debate. Jetgraphics invokes the Declaration of Independence to make his argument? First of all, he is using the wrong document to support his argument. Second, even if that was the correct document (The Declaration of Independence is not a legal governing document, despite its obvious importance) it applies to Americans - not people who behead, suicide bomb, etc and see Americans as "infidels" worthy of death or worse.
The original poster brought up an analogy that doesn't even come close to applying in this case. You might as well sarcastically ask "We torture terrorists, so should we not torture our kids when they won't eat their dinner?" It's a specious argument.
Overall, the left's whole take on this debate is profoundly hypocritical. Every time the right invokes the founding fathers and talks about historical documents, the left counters with the old "But times have changed!" argument. Yet they'll invoke historical documents when it's convenient - laughably, when it doesn't even apply as in this case. And to use the left's same argument they use for every social issue I can think of - did you think the founding fathers foresaw an enemy that not only doesn't care about dying, they WANT to die in a war against us since it's an immediate ticket to paradise? The Geneva Convention and all "rules of war" pretty much go out the door here - these enemies are not people representing a government. They are people dedicated to destroying an entire culture by any means at their disposal.
On 9-10-2001 if we had a laptop in our possession and not allowed to search it's memory. 3000 people died. Yep- if we can save American lives by making a high value target talk put the screws to them. By the way some of those that died were children.
The debate is about terrorists, not mere "criminals". Where people fail to see the difference, it's not worth having the debate. Jetgraphics invokes the Declaration of Independence to make his argument? First of all, he is using the wrong document to support his argument. Second, even if that was the correct document (The Declaration of Independence is not a legal governing document, despite its obvious importance) it applies to Americans - not people who behead, suicide bomb, etc and see Americans as "infidels" worthy of death or worse.
The debate is about EVIL, and how torture is EVIL. You cannot say an accused terrorist, before conviction, is GUILTY. If you do, then you have embraced EVIL, and are unAmerican. Because American law presumes INNOCENCE until proven guilty.
To torture those accused, but unconvicted, reduces Federal authority to a gang of thugs and terrorists (government sponsored, no less). For when one man is denied due process, for what ever reason, ALL AMERICANS are at risk.
American law specifically states that no man can be compelled to bear witness against himself. I sincerely doubt that anyone volunteered to be tortured.
In addition, the Declaration of Independence is Statute #1 in the Statutes at Large of the United States of America. You will not find ONE LAW that violates the DOI.
And the DOI says that men are endowed with rights by their Creator, not "just Americans".
When Americans embrace evil to stop evil, what makes Americans any better than those it condemns?
BTW - inflicting death and mayhem upon innocent people is criminal, whether by cluster bomb, napalm, smart bomb, enhanced munitions, beheading, .50 caliber shell, grenade, antipersonnel mine, claymore, or sharp implement.
What did the Iraqi or Afghani people do to the U.S.A. that justified invasion, destruction, and murder?
If you can't perceive that America has become a Terrorist nation, embarking on military misadventures for no logical reason, perhaps you are incapable of reason, and lack a moral conscience.
Jesus did not teach, "Kill them all, and let God sort them out!"
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