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Understand, I am not advocating mandatory health insurance. I would like to completely remove the health insurance companies from the equation. Single payer system such as European model is what I am putting forth. Was that option discussed? Mandatory health insurance would do nothing to cut the costs of healthcare.
If I understand your question - was a totally Government run health insurance program discussed? Sure - and very extensively. And the consensus was (and pretty much unanimous) that it would not be feasible for many reasons:
1) The shear cost of conversion (we heard numbers that would make this current financial bailout we are going through look pale by comparison)
2) The Growth of Government is something we needed to avoid
3) If you actually eliminated the insurance companies altogether - our laws mandate that the Government would have to "buy" them, and all their assets, at fair market value (eminent domain) and this cost alone would be prohibitive.
I am assuming that you still live in Canada???
Just an FYI there is a massive nurse shortage in the U.S. as well and if the U.S. had Univeral coverage then presumably Canandian nurses would not be coming to the U.S. I guess it would help Canada out as well.
6 hour waits in the U.S. are not uncommon. The only difference is that we have to pay for them.
The U.S. has a shortage of Doctors as well, although it is not because we don't pay them enough is that we have cut the amount of doctors that we graduate each year to increase the supply of doctors to artificially increase their pay.
I keep hearing best healthcare system in the world. Is it? That is not what I read and the statics don't substantiate that. What facts do you have that would make us the best in the world. Cost...no. Life expectancy....no, access to healthcare...no, What?
Then I assume that you have some personal knowledge of both systems if you are going to disagree with my evidence.
And do you want to know how I know that our healthcare system is better? People in Canada (if they have the money) go to the US to get healthcare. One of my aunts was given a 15 month what to get a CT scan for a bump on her stomach that doctors thought might be cancerous, she went to the US instead of waiting to die. That never happens in the US, if you have to wait 3 days for a CT scan here you are very unlucky.
And 6 hour waits here are VERY uncommon, except in places where illegal aliens have flooded the ERs. I have have to visit the ER 3 times since living in the US (3 different hospitals, 2 in Buffalo, 1 in Charleston, SC) and the wait was always under 30 minutes. Are there peak times? Yes, but in Canada during peak times, ER waits are 10 hours or more. My sister broke her leg figure skating in Canada and she had to wait never 7 hours to see a doctor.
And if you think that the nurse shortage is bad in the US, imagine how bad it would be if Obama's plan gets in, and instead of choosing to work here, our grads go elsewhere. That is what happens in Canada. They are in desperate need of nurses. They offer to cover tuitions, huge signing bonuses, but they still leave to go to the US.
Have you ever wondered why you will never hear a Canadian that lives in the US (and many that live in Canada) talk about wanting Canadian-style Socialized health care? Because it plain sucks!
Clearly no amount of evidence will influence hotair2's mind, but hopefully the evidence will help others be more informed, and more able to help stand up and oppose the travesty that Obama wants.
Cost...no. Life expectancy....no, access to healthcare...no, What?
Well, in Canada, my father, on a meager minister's salary was at the 40% tax rate, when he moved to Buffalo, his salary increased, but his tax rate went down 60%. So between taxes and the cost of health insurance, we saved tons moving to the US.
Do you think that the healthcare will be free in the US? Will the cure-fairy go door to door fixing people's ailments at no cost? Of course not! You pay for it! Taxes will go up for 95% of Americans (and A LOT) You pay for it either way, the only difference is with socialized healthcare the government decides what treatments you can have, and which aren't necessary. Also, under a government run system, there is an incentive to allow more people to die (as living people, who are too old to pay taxes are nothing but a burden on the system). Under a private system, as long as you pay, the insurance companies make money, so they have an incentive to keep you alive.
Life expectancy: Look at our society, then look at the country that has the longest life expectancy (Japan). Here we eat fast food, drink too much, and don't exercise enough. In Japan they eat natural foods, exercise, and drink in moderation. Is it OK that we eat fast food and don't exercise as much as Japan? Yes, we have that right to not exercise. But you can't compare a country like Japan to America and say that the only factor in life expectancy is socialized health care, that is a downright dumb assertion.
And speaking of our right to eat how we want, drink how we want, and exercise how we want. Did you know that in Canada, the government can deem that you aren't living healthy enough and force you to either quit smoking/ lose weight, or not get certain treatments? Doesn't that sound great!!!
Access to healthcare: You know well that any uninsured person can go to an emergency room for emergency care, and will not be turned away.
Most children under 18 can be covered under CHIP, and 1 in 7 Americans are covered by medicare.
So don't give that crap about healthcare only being for the rich. Healthcare is just as accessible here than in Canada. The difference is that here, the quality is far better.
Google C-Difficile. There have been massive outbreaks of the C-Difficile virus in Canada, because of hospital overcrowding. If you want an image of what single payer healthcare looks like, think of C-Difficile, a virus that kills countless Canadians, that infects primarily sick people with weak immune systems. Why doesn't that happen here? Because in America hospitals get built when they are needed, in Canada, they just cram more beds in when they can't fit anyone else in.
I have lived under Socialized healthcare! Until you have experienced it, you do NOT know how it will be. It is just horrible. In Canada, waiting room times are at about 6 hours.
Socialized healthcare is absolutely horrible, and our great system of healthcare in the US is one of the reasons why doctors come to the US from around the world.
Did you know in Canada there is a MASSIVE nurse shortage? You know why? 1) The government is so overburdened by health costs that it can not afford to pay nurses well. 2) Nurses go to the US, where they can be part of the best healthcare system in the world.
The same goes for doctors. Canada is unable to recruit top specialists, while the US is, because of our private health system.
These people who post about socialized healthcare, and have never even experienced it are starting to really get on my nerves. Stop listening to third and fourth party sources, and actually ask Canadians how they like their healthcare. Odds are, if they aren't on welfare, they hate it!
You asked me to ask real Canadians and so I posted the question under the Canada portion of City Data. Here is what I have found out so far. You can go to the Canada portion to verify.
Canadian:
have lived under Socialized healthcare! Until you have experienced it, you do NOT know how it will be. It is just horrible. In Canada, waiting room times are at about 6 hours. One time I have to wait for 3 hours in the walk-in clinnic on sat/sun. but it's understandable it's the weekend and your family doctor is not open, most of the time i waited 15-30 mins before my doctor can see me
Socialized healthcare is absolutely horrible, and our great system of healthcare in the US is one of the reasons why doctors come to the US from around the world. the biggest reason why CND Doctors move to the US is because they get/want more $$$$$$$
Did you know in Canada there is a MASSIVE nurse shortage? You know why? 1) The government is so overburdened by health costs that it can not afford to pay nurses well. 2) Nurses go to the US, where they can be part of the best healthcare system in the world. My SIL is a nurse and all i hear is how stupid some intern doctor are
The same goes for doctors. Canada is unable to recruit top specialists, while the US is, because of our private health system.I don't know about other part of canada but here in Toronto we have one of the best if not the best paediatric hospital in the world (Sic
Well, I worked for a Medicaid HMO and let me tell you that there is a strong push by HMO's (at least the one I worked at) for their clients to GO TO THE DOCTOR for annual visits. The outreach my old company used to do was absolutely incredible and I was very pleased. I had worked in finance at a hospital before moving to the HMO and I was shocked at the aggressive outreach we had to people (most were poor, hence using Medicaid) to get checked at least yearly as well as go into their homes and do health assessments (for lead, ambulatory issues, safety, etc.).
Yes and let's tax sugar and salt and anything else the Govt deems unhealthy because once they (you the taxpayer) are funding healthcare, the Gubmint is going to tell you what to eat, how to eat it, blah blah...screw that. Get the Gumbint out of healthcare because they're doing such a bang up job on everything else they've jacked up.
Canadian:
have lived under Socialized healthcare! Until you have experienced it, you do NOT know how it will be. It is just horrible. In Canada, waiting room times are at about 6 hours. One time I have to wait for 3 hours in the walk-in clinnic on sat/sun. but it's understandable it's the weekend and your family doctor is not open, most of the time i waited 15-30 mins before my doctor can see me
The walk in clinic isn't the ER. Yes in Canada you don't really have to wait longer to see your doctor once you there, but getting an appointment is aweful. How long ahead do you have to make your appointment with your GP a week maybe two weeks? In Canada try 3 months.
Socialized healthcare is absolutely horrible, and our great system of healthcare in the US is one of the reasons why doctors come to the US from around the world. the biggest reason why CND Doctors move to the US is because they get/want more $$$$$$$ Yes, and the US offers more money because the private hospitals want to have the best doctors. The Canadian government doesn't care about having the best doctors, so they won't pay for them.
Did you know in Canada there is a MASSIVE nurse shortage? You know why? 1) The government is so overburdened by health costs that it can not afford to pay nurses well. 2) Nurses go to the US, where they can be part of the best healthcare system in the world. My SIL is a nurse and all i hear is how stupid some intern doctor are Not sure how this is relevant
The same goes for doctors. Canada is unable to recruit top specialists, while the US is, because of our private health system.I don't know about other part of canada but here in Toronto we have one of the best if not the best paediatric hospital in the world (Sic
From my understanding this list ranks the best children's hospitals in Canada the US and Mexico. Notice a trend?
If universal health care is so nightmarishly bad and undesirable in all the other countries that have it, can somone name so much as one web site from such a country that advocates abolishing their universal health care and adopting the American way of health care? I bet no one can.
But most states in America have at least one web site advocating the adoption of universal health care.
Here is a good thread with some pros and cons, from Canadians. Most Canadians are very defensive over their health care (don't want to be compared to Americans) so their responses will be more flowery than they really are.
On the taxes that Socialism and Socialized healthcare inevitably brings, note the health care tax is over $6400 a year, for inferior health care. Doesn't seem like a good deal at all!
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