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Illegal Imigrant: Lets start with the fact that human migration,in search of better living conditions is something that has been going on since there have been humans. Let's examine why we are so distraught about "illegal" immigration. I have a really hard time believing that most immigrants, legal or illegal, do not contribute more to society than they take, the exception being children, and it is not the children who are making to choice to migrate illegally. I live in South Central Arizona and am constantly impressed by the work ethic displayed by the Mexican and Mexican Americans that I encounter. These people work incredibly hard, ususally for a low wage, and manage to both "save" and "share" with others. . . impressive. I know that politically, this immigration is a "hot button" issue for many, but again, with the exception of the children, who will grow up to be "American", regardless of their last names, these people work hard, and often with the goal of making enough money to return to their country of origin with some measure of financial security, or of fully assimilating into American Society. Again, I know and have known folks in both categories. I celebrate with immigrant friends when they obtain citizenship, and would hope that we are "big enough", in heart and mind, to embrace all who would come here to secure a better life.
Death Penalty: OK, I am a bit of a "fence sitter" on this one, but there is now ample proof that our justice system is sufficiently flawed that many innocent people are both incarcerated and put to death. We need to exercize much more "doubt" than we do, for both the innocent and the guilty. . . (think O.J. here). . .
Incarceration should, ideally, be a place where severe psyco -social diseases are treated, with compassion, if possible, where every attempt to address the root cause of such diseases is made, and where those who must remain imprisioned are protected from themselves and others. Those who are given a life sentence, with no possiblility of parole, should have the option of euthanasia.
Welfare: The common understanding is that "welfare" is for those too lazy to work and support themselves. I'm sure there are some that "take advantage" of it, but many, if not most welfare recipients are single women raising children. This is an impossible situation for everyone. If they find a way to even partially support themselves, they are denied their "safety net". . .
There are also plenty of really, legitimately "dissabled" people out there, those who really cannot hope to ever support themselves, especially since most of them need extensive ongoing medical treatment just to keep breathing. If the measure of a society is how it takes care of those who cannot take care of themselves, we are not doing so well!
Welfare for those who with education, child support, transportation, etc., can and will fully support themselves and their families should not be made so "difficult". The case of the people abusing the system is always given great weight, but the abuses are very small in comparison to the huge number of people who really need assistance! As individuals, and as a society, I could wish that we had much more "generosity of spirit".
I have several questions regarding liberal stances. Now, I do realize that these stances may not be held by the typical moderate liberal but rather, by extreme ones. I also realize that there might be some conservatives who hold these stances but that is usually VERY rare.
Please try to answer my questions if you can.
1) Illegal immigrants-I hear about how liberals are against kicking illegal immigrants out. Why is that? Why should we allow these people to come here and demand we adjust to them? I mean, think about it. They give no respect to our country and even fly the Mexican Flag over the United States one. We should we be ok with that? They hardly pay into anything. In fact, I watched a video that was posted in our illegal immigration forum and it ENRAGED me. This Mexican woman came over the border just to give birth and have an anchor baby. Who footed the bill? WE DID.
2) Death penalty-I also fail to understand why liberals feel the need to protect the people who raped and kill other people. I am for death penalty IF THERE IS HARD CONCRETE PROOF that that person did the crime. I mean, why should we let them live in jail or prison and give them food and give them health care when they killed someone! This someone may have been a father, a best friend, a brother, sister, mother, sister, uncle, aunt so why should they live getting food and health care (paid by us-OF COURSE)?
3) Welfare- You have no freakin idea how much abuse I have witnessed ever since I started working in retail. People try to buy all sorts of things on the Michigan Bridge Card and then yell at me when it does not go through. Well-DUH! I think you know you cannot buy nail polish or magazines on the card, right? I am standing here working for eight hours making $7.57 an hour for people like you? Don't talk to me like that and don't get angry like that when I am the one who is giving you all these benefits. I am for welfare BUT to a point. I am for welfare when someone can PROVE that they are indeed looking for a job and have hit hard times. Not because they don't want to work anymore (if they EVEN have worked before).
Please do not bash each other here as I am looking for a sincere discussion and maybe a reason why some people believe in the above.
Thanks.
Most of what you say here is anecdotal/ suppositional.
I guess that's the difference between liberals and conservatives; liberals tend to be unmoved by such things- anecdotes, appeals to emotionality- and rely more on statistics and hard data.
Death Penalty: I do not believe in taking a life. Recently, with DNA evidence, a lot of people on death row have been found to be innocent. I wonder how many innocent lives we ended with this policy?
I'm against late term abortions except to save the life/health of the mother, and even then I think an effort should be made to save the fetus. I don't like all the "victimization" talk that goes on with some Dems.
I have several questions regarding liberal stances. Now, I do realize that these stances may not be held by the typical moderate liberal but rather, by extreme ones. I also realize that there might be some conservatives who hold these stances but that is usually VERY rare.
Please try to answer my questions if you can.
1) Illegal immigrants-I hear about how liberals are against kicking illegal immigrants out. Why is that? Why should we allow these people to come here and demand we adjust to them? I mean, think about it. They give no respect to our country and even fly the Mexican Flag over the United States one. We should we be ok with that? They hardly pay into anything. In fact, I watched a video that was posted in our illegal immigration forum and it ENRAGED me. This Mexican woman came over the border just to give birth and have an anchor baby. Who footed the bill? WE DID. I think illegal immigration needs to be addressed in a logical manner. I'm not for giving blanket citizenship to everyone, but I think documenting them is a start, and getting them on a path to legal residency or citizenship is better than rounding them up and sending them ALL back. I don't think breaking up the families is ok, either, when the kid is a citizen and the parents are not.
2) Death penalty-I also fail to understand why liberals feel the need to protect the people who raped and kill other people. I am for death penalty IF THERE IS HARD CONCRETE PROOF that that person did the crime. I mean, why should we let them live in jail or prison and give them food and give them health care when they killed someone! This someone may have been a father, a best friend, a brother, sister, mother, sister, uncle, aunt so why should they live getting food and health care (paid by us-OF COURSE)? The judicial system is not perfect. Innocent people are convicted sometimes. Plus, I don't think the death penalty is a deterrent, and death row is expensive (appeals, etc.)
3) Welfare- You have no freakin idea how much abuse I have witnessed ever since I started working in retail. People try to buy all sorts of things on the Michigan Bridge Card and then yell at me when it does not go through. Well-DUH! I think you know you cannot buy nail polish or magazines on the card, right? I am standing here working for eight hours making $7.57 an hour for people like you? Don't talk to me like that and don't get angry like that when I am the one who is giving you all these benefits. I am for welfare BUT to a point. I am for welfare when someone can PROVE that they are indeed looking for a job and have hit hard times. Not because they don't want to work anymore (if they EVEN have worked before). I'm sure it does get abused, but a civilized society doesn't just let children starve because their parents are out of work. It is a necessary evil. I think it should be temporary and should include job training of some kind.
Please do not bash each other here as I am looking for a sincere discussion and maybe a reason why some people believe in the above.
Thanks.
Do you really want answers to these questions. I mean, your name is "The Liberal Voice."
Last edited by Kibbiekat; 05-28-2009 at 08:48 PM..
"I'm against late term abortions except to save the life/health of the mother, and even then I think an effort should be made to save the fetus. I don't like all the "victimization" talk that goes on with some Dems."
Except Sonrise is against abortion even if the mothers life is in danger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305
Do you really want answers to these questions. I mean, your name is "The Liberal Voice."
Yes, I really do. I am sincerely hoping for a explanation. And thank you for not just coming in here and saying something rude or off topic like other people here.
Death Penalty: I do not believe in taking a life. Recently, with DNA evidence, a lot of people on death row have been found to be innocent. I wonder how many innocent lives we ended with this policy?
I understand this. This is what I think of: those men/women being led to the room, being strapped to that table & then being injected & then their body absorbing the poison as they lay there thinking "What just god would do this to me?" In actuality, I don't believe in god but for those conservatives on here who DO believe in god & also believe in the death penalty, that's why I said it. I also imagine their bodies burning & convulsing w/pain. Now, I'm sure they don't convulse, but that's what I imagine. I also think of: what in the heck are these people thinking of as that poison courses thru their body? Are they thinking of the good times in their life? Are they thinking "goddamit, goddamit to hell that I associated w/that person who put me in this position'? Are they crying? How much pain are they feeling? What are their family members thinking at the moment that is happening? These are the things I think of. Of course, I don't think of this as much as a person who is actually found guilty, but believe it or not, even for those people I think of that. Call me a bleeding heart liberal, I don't care, I can't help the way I think about things.
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